Work In Progress / Kshatriya Challenges: File 002

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Bugsy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2016 15:06
Developer: Bugsy (with wolf's handy advice at every corner)

Storyline: You are a relic from the eugenics war, an enhanced human-cybernetic hybrid with the ability to regenerate your health, enhanced muscle mass for jumping and lifting, the ability to take several bullets and...you can run forever. The government stopped using your class of cybersoldier after the 3rd corporate war, so you make money by being a mercenary. Your target has key evidence that would put away the cartel boss for life, and he fled hong kong for katmandu before he could be captured. you must assassinate him by any means.

Description: A game with multiple different ways to achieve obstacles, Kshatriya Challenges File 002 Is essentially a remake of 001, but with a slightly changed scenery and hopefully more dramatic buildup to the sniper scene. I felt obligated to re-do it considering pretty much everyones computer couldnt run it. Featuring 3 levels full of stealth, parkour, shooting, and sniping!





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Wolf
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Posted: 12th Sep 2016 15:53
Looking already worlds apart from "Running around"
Very good outdoor design. I'd critizise the werid normalmaps, but I know very well that those aren't working properly with baked lights.

Looking forward to more!



-Wolf
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Posted: 12th Sep 2016 18:02 Edited at: 12th Sep 2016 20:44
I really gotta work on my own projects more.

You guys are making me look bad and feel guilty lol
I'm really envious of your city-design skills. That's such a huge diff between what I can make.
Belidos
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Posted: 12th Sep 2016 20:21
I know that feeling, haven't had time to work on my own for a few weeks now, really need to get back to it.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 13th Sep 2016 05:04
Thanks for your comments, hopefully more people will see it and leave me their opinions!

there are a few things I have begun to notice about GG's lighting, and I want to ask if I am correct in my assumptions of these things, so some answers to these questions would really help

non-normal/spec/ mapped objects, or objects not using the entity basic.fx shader simply will not react to static lights will they? I often notice that those entities will only cast shadows from the sun, and those shadows are often an ugly darker colour than the rest. see the picture:


another question: despite my best effort, (as well as all entities having the proper shader) I still often run into weird lighting glitches like the one in the 4th screenshot where the shadow of an outside wire is cast inside. can anyone explain to me why this happens? here's another example:
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Wolf
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Posted: 13th Sep 2016 05:24
Quote: "non-normal/spec/ mapped objects, or objects not using the entity basic.fx shader simply will not react to static lights will they? I often notice that those entities will only cast shadows from the sun, and those shadows are often an ugly darker colour than the rest. see the picture:"


You got it! Everything not using the shader will indeed not work correctly.

Quote: "like the one in the 4th screenshot where the shadow of an outside wire is cast inside."


Is that a baked or real time shadow there? Does it disappear when you turn down the "shadows" slider in game?



-Wolf
Belidos
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Posted: 13th Sep 2016 08:15 Edited at: 13th Sep 2016 08:19
Usually if you get shadows from outside that shouldn't be there it'd because the object that should be blocking the light is too thin, there's a minimum thickness needed between two back to back planes to block the light and avoid shadows, in blender units its 10, but not sure what that relates to in other modelling programs.

Once the outside wall and ceiling is thick enough it blocks the sunlight from everything inside and you don't get the odd shadows.

What I do is make really thick wall and ceiling models (low poly plain coloured textures) and enclose my indoor scenes in that to block all sunlight.

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Wolf
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Posted: 13th Sep 2016 14:00
True! Judging from that I'd go out on a whim and say the ceiling is too thin.
(I know that its terrible, but we all believe in that renderer overhaul someday )



-Wolf
Bugsy
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Posted: 14th Sep 2016 00:01
turns out i was using a non-mapped wire as i have bazillions from my old FPSC collection. fixed it!

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granada
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Posted: 14th Sep 2016 13:27
What a improvement on "Running around",i cant wait to give this a spin .Nice work Bugsy.

Dave
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Bugsy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2016 09:08


now that i'm getting the hang of it, i'm starting to like GG's lightmapping engine
especially since I realized the process can be minimized without crashing!
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nuncio
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Posted: 15th Sep 2016 22:00
i like this. very nice lighting you have
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Bugsy
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Posted: 16th Sep 2016 04:11
thanks nuncio: heres some more from level 1

starting area:


stairs room:



skybridge:


hallways:

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Teabone
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2016 18:31
Impressive looking stuff here
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Bugsy
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Posted: 27th Sep 2016 05:23


having some trouble with occlusion. when i turn it up, this building, behind only a small wall, often disappears. most of the other visible stuff does not disappear, however this building immediately does once its over 10

anyone have experience with GG's culling system and can explain why this happens?
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DVader
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Posted: 27th Sep 2016 13:10
Looks great so far. Why is it my city scenes never look this good?


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Bugsy
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Posted: 28th Sep 2016 06:40
thanks, but do you have any suggestions as to the root of my problem?
I suggest messing with the ambience and surface levels, that helps me
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Posted: 29th Sep 2016 23:12 Edited at: 27th Jul 2019 14:30
Really cool to see you getting the hang of the lighting system. This is looking grand! Nicely done Bugsy!
Bugsy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2016 07:56




some early screenshots of my favourite parts of the next level, (cops moving in on your lab, you gotta get out. this level is TIGHTLY linear but there's a lot of shooting. the first level is a navigation challenge, mainly, whereas this is a shooting challenge)
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Bugsy
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Posted: 1st Oct 2016 04:50



nobody commented on the last 3, so heres 2 more pictures of that other level.

at this point, i'm deciding whether I want to make this a separate game, as the gameplay and skybox and shader/atmospheric settings are different, as well as the gameplay (much more fast paced). does anyone have any experience with changing DOF/skybox/fog/ambience settings between levels and if the changes are preserved in a built game?
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Disturbing 13
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2016 01:17
Looking great man! I'm definitely looking forward to the third Kshatriya installment!
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2016 08:21
turns out, those bottom screenshots may become a different game, and this kshatriya installment will be either cancelled, or turned into only one level.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 05:08
Here's some more pictures of that level, it has you navigating from a drug-lab through the streets to the docks fighting along the way.





I had to remove some of the cooler DOF effects to keep framerates constantly above 60 on my machine while testing, but adding more distant stuff i think makes it look cooler anyway.



I think the level also looks really good backtracking from the end so I wanted to possibly use the story to give a reason to fight through the map again because it would probably be an awesome and different challenge backwards and possibly with a different gun

would really love more info on whether sky/fog/terrain settings will carry through in a build on a per level basis, if not, I'll have to change one of these levels settings to match the other which will really limit the tonal range of this game
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Bugsy
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heres some gameplay footage of a bit of that level! I really wanna keep this all one game to have a game with different level pacing for each level, but if I had to split it, I'd make the orange-sky scene into a one level recreation of my FPSC sniper scene (although a good bit different with many ways to accomplish the objective) and the purple fog city (For which i have yet to make a purple sky) would be made into another multi-level game about gunning down increasing hordes of guys with different guns being the star of each map (really hating how enemies can only have stock weapons)








updated the other map screenshots to reflect the current colour grading situation i have slidered up, plus an extra picture of the spawn room. I'd love some comments! seems like im talking to myself here sometimes
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 17:13
Great work! I love the leveldesign, just awesome Im guessing you get alot of inspiration from Ghost in the shell
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 19:38
hahaha!!! yes its my very favourite anime
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Ertlov
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 19:49
Yes, that reminded me very much of the Standalone Komplex, too
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 23:14
Im glad you feel that way, thats exactly what I was going for
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Bugsy
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 04:44



heres two more guns to be featured in the game: the AS VAL and the HK Karbine concept SMG
i'm particularly happy with the ASVAL animations
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Ertlov
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 07:42
The ASVAL animation looks gorgeous, but isn't there a slight frame hickup in the putaway animation?
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 08:14
yep. it's been fixed. this is the next beast i'll be adding:



if you have any experience with bolt action weapons go to the models and media chat and help me
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 11:14
I have with real ones. jumping over!
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 15:08
your work is awesome.
more than what meets the eye.Welcome to SciFi Summer

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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 00:02
actually im not entirely sure this gun will be in the game. despite all of EAI's advice this one proves to be a particularly annoying addition im guessing due to its numerous moving parts. it is giving me issues ive never seen before and I did everything he told me to do in 3ds max, so I might just chalk this up to Gameguru being a finnicky difficult brute and not include this gun.

my problem is how to get a 3rd level out of this. If I dont keep the gun I'll use the ASVAL for the sniper scene and the HK Karbine smg for level 3

my main question becomes what to do with the 3rd level. I was considering a flashback to the same level as the second one, but backwards and at an earlier time, perhaps ending in a different location, i also considered a port/intermodal type map, and a warehouse/factory.

I feel like it's technically lazy to have one of your games 3 levels be another level backwards, even though i dont know how i would tie those other places in with the story. I wanna know what you'd like to play, and keep in mind that it has to be flat, considering Gameguru's egregious AI constraints
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 00:30
Hey! What I'd like to see you do would be a big time square like place...maybe really run down with lots of enemies to fight. You can send the player through police blocades and parked vehicules to keep the AI constraints and spawning in check.
Maybe you can go through a building, through a subway or monorail station or through the sewers to get to the location you need the player to be.

Oh! You know that I think that your work is gold, so I'll be brief on that! Hit me up in skype during the week, I got a bunch of stuff to talk about.



-Wolf
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 07:53
Wolf wrote: "Hey! What I'd like to see you do would be a big time square like place...maybe really run down with lots of enemies to fight. You can send the player through police blocades and parked vehicules to keep the AI constraints and spawning in check."




you'll like those firefights a lot!

here's some more screens of level 1: im putting the finishing touches on it. It's one of those dishonored style "branching paths" levels so if you prefer to leave a trail of bodies in your wake, you can get a chopper in the backyard and ventilate some hired guns on the main street outside the gate, or you can take the roofs and if you're sneaky, avoid killing a single guard.




and heres some pics of the latter method




and despite its numerous flaws and annoyances, Gameguru really can handle a lot more than FPSC and a lot more smoothly. from the helipad winzone on top of the targets building at the end of the map, I can look out on the whole city with occlusion at only 10 and maintain 60 fps at all times.



at this point, it appears as though I'll do a flashback scene at a different time of day a few years previous as an excuse to make some changes to level 2 and call it level 3, then call it a game.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 10:44
a little screenshot crazy but here's some more. level 1 is officially complete!

the stairs out of the sniper room down to the streets (you can also stick to the roofs to avoid enemy contact)





and one more picture of those nice streets. they're a blast to have a shootout on with the AS VAL



I'll record some gameplay of this level as well.

in the mean time I ask you to PLEASE SUPPORT ME by giving the original FPSC Kshatriya a download/review/whatever on IndieDB
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 12:51
I'm not sure if GG can handle it but with some simple ai you could make this a huge living breathing city. It actually looks like you already have made it in size at least. With some of the mission scripts you could actually make this an open world tpe game. Great work!
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 13:49
im not sure about the open world aspect, as that would severely limit the detail i would be able to put. I prefer to have 2 or 3 great looking branching paths instead of a bland same-y landscape. This is an entirely linear game, but the player in one level has the choice of how to accomplish the objective. levels 2 and 3 will be more shoot-y less navigate-y

so heres another screenshot dump. sorrynotsorry

i added some more detail to the stairs down from the sniper room



I polished up the rest of the map




and im proud to say that up on the top of the map (dont worry it ends here) looking down on as much playable scenery as I could my computer maintained a constant 43 fps with one AI still active in the map. I have a 6core 3.5 ghz processor, 16gb of ram, and a radeon r9 270x 4gb vidcard
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Gtox
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 16:13
Impressive looking level - maybe the streets could do with a bit more clutter (not sure how that would affect your FPS, though), but the level design is excellent, and the city looks like an actual city, which I know from my own feeble attempts is pretty difficult to get right.
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 16:30
Bugsy,

You know I love your work; always have and always will.

I have to be critical here. The colour palette seems to be all over the place. The colours in the screen shots aren't complimenting each other tremendously well and, for me, it's very jarring. I took a look at the original version you made in FPSC; the colours are gorgeous in that. Subtle, toned down and easy on the eye.

I know you will make the best of this new project; I just wanted to let you know my thoughts. It is only my opinion and other people might not agree with me, but, I didn't want to sit here and not say anything.

Cheers

Jay.

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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 17:14
Man dude, you got me whipped on city scenes, bravo. This is really good and definitely looks like fun to play. take your time, do it right, and make it the best you can. I'm going to be breaking down what you've done here for months trying to figure out how to put together things that look as Deus-Ex inspired as this.

Thanks
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 22:55
Quote: "I have to be critical here. The colour palette seems to be all over the place. The colours in the screen shots aren't complimenting each other tremendously well and, for me, it's very jarring. I took a look at the original version you made in FPSC; the colours are gorgeous in that. Subtle, toned down and easy on the eye."


to be honest, thats because i had to be a lot more sparing with my use of lighting in FPSC. so if i wanted to use a blue sign in a scene, I had to make the area almost all also blue as well, hoping other lights off in the bg or foreground would compliment the colour. in gameguru, the scenes and areas are so much larger that if you stand in a corner and take a look at the map, you're gonna see several different lights. also, because of how much more control we have on effects and ambiance, I kind of maybe went a little colour crazy? I personally like it myself. I don't want everything washed out, and the method of "sun" and "moon" lighting are different in GG. perhaps you'll like it a little better when i get a better skybox on level 2 thats a bit more purple like the fog


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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 01:21 Edited at: 7th Oct 2016 01:22
I like it Bugsy it's a style that can not be compare to others.
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 12:51
Quote: " I personally like it myself."


That, right there, is the exact reason you should keep it the way it is.

As I am a graphic designer by trade, I am constantly battling, trying to get complimentary colours to work together and trying to limit the colour pallette, to make my designs look more visually appealing. I guess I'm just not used to this style and I need to take my designer glasses off and look at it with different eyes.

The image you finished with completely proves your point.

Keep doing what you do mate, I only meant my previous comment as my personal opinion.

Cheers

Jay.

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Posted: 8th Oct 2016 01:51
I like to use one main colour, (surface) one complimentary (ambience) and one or 2 light colours at a time, making for 4 colours on screen max, usually more about 2-3. I agree looking at too much colour can be tiring, but I kinda feel like i can get away with it given every episode of kshatriya is like 15 minutes. I want a very visually distinctive game that leaves a lasting impression with its scenery about the universe it is in.

level 1 was orange/blue/red/purple (perhaps i should change the green parts but in those rooms I keep the light colour to suit the wall colours despite the surface/ambience)
level 2 was purple/red/yellow/orange (but i got crazy and put some pink in there and some muted greens)

the way i look at it, most people arent going to back themselves into corners and take screenshots, but rather play the game as a whole experience looking at what they will have to to win, and I try to make sure that the game is never too tiring to look at from the players standpoint. Thats why I tried to have DOF on level 2, however I noticed it simply took too much a toll on performance, especially with those large overlays in the background.
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Wolf
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Posted: 8th Oct 2016 06:58
Jay is a professional so he is looking at a common cause for the "busy" seeming screenshots. Which in his profession is usually terrible composition or bad choice of colours. Look at it Jay...loook at it!!

...but Bugsy is actually doing nothing wrong at that regard...I think he is doing a lot right. (note that some disharmonious scenes fit well in a cyberpunk universe.) What causes the uneasiness on the eye is the way Guru currently renders... especially depht and a couple textures that need tweaking.

Complementary colours are great and I have always used them to enhance my artworks...but I think the talentless hacks that make a lot of (especially made for TV) movies are killing cinema with it. Especially Amber and Teal. Now you are most likely not familiar with german television or movies and you are not missing out on a lot. However every new thriller, crime drama or action movie now looks exactly the same due to this. There are variations in tone but they are shot, edited and coloured identically. German movies used to be naturally ugly and kinda toned like the whole thing was shot in a public bathroom...especially during the nineties...but now: Amber and teal palette, sterile offices with tons of glass and flatscreen and young actresses with the same facial expression. Its ...weird.

Now that I'm already going off on a tantrum here let me continue: They go to such obvious and absurd lengths as to: Decorate entire apartments so that every vase or book is either in the amber or teal colour spectrum, every character in the entire movie is wearing some shade of blue, unless he is wearing a bright brown/orange leather jacket, every office (especially if its the police) must have absurdly large windows with a visible skyline and every door in said office must be open to have this weird sense of scale. Same with apartments. I've seen a flick that had such extreme filtering that the grass was orange.

If Bugsy would load this map as it is into something like cry engine, it would probably blow my socks off... its still pretty great as it is.
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Posted: 10th Oct 2016 12:53
Quote: "Jay is a professional so he is looking at a common cause for the "busy" seeming screenshots. Which in his profession is usually terrible composition or bad choice of colours. Look at it Jay...loook at it!!
"


Wolf! WHY?!? I just threw up a little! Why is that even a thing?

Bugsy, you know what you are doing mate. You have been designing games perfectly well, before my input. I know you will make this a success, so, keep doing what you're doing. Also, I can imagine that once I play it, it will be a completely different experience!

Cheers

Jay.

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Posted: 10th Oct 2016 15:48
With respect to the scene he's building, I think specifically with cyberpunk the choice in lighting is actually very accurate.

Most cities as it stands have increasing amounts of light pollution; it only stands to reason that in the future the vast majority of areas will be overwhelmed and saturated with conflicting colors. There will be competing billboards, lamps, decorations, etc. As people are pushed to smaller and smaller living quarters (think Hong Kong) with more and more technology being used. Take for example this picture:



This is an actual road in HK and you can see the level of light pollution is .. significant. There's a lot of visual conflict here.
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Posted: 11th Oct 2016 03:13
Wow that is a cool looking street at night,bet it looks like a tip during the day though.

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