I've encountered a problem with ischaracter=1 which has caused me no end of frustration. The model starts a foot or so lower than it should and then, after about half a dozen animation transitions, shoots up into the correct position. In the past when I've had this problem, it's been caused by the root node not being centred on 0,0,0, which is not the case with this model. After much fiddling with the animation (to no avail), I tried it with just the mesh (ie no bones, skin, animations etc) with exactly the same result. Even with the mesh itself centred in 0,0,0, it starts half in the ground, and then rises after the required number of animation transitions.
I know that rigging/animation is a complex procedure and how easy it is for problems to creep in, but for the life of me I can't figure out why a single mesh would do the same thing. I've tried altering the collision mode, I've made sure that the stack is collapsed, I've deleted the .dbo files, I've verified the GameGuru files on Steam, I haven't used any new techniques in creating the model, I've tried the model importer and .fpe files of working models (in case I'm messed up the .fpe file), but nothing has worked.
So, I have two questions - why would a model sink into the ground when ischaracter=1? Why does it return to the correct height after about 6 animation transitions?
If someone could put me out of my misery I would be grateful.

I really don't know that, i have sometimes the exact same problems.
Did the same thing when creating but the result is different
so Yeah i can imaging that it is frustating.
i found out that
Scaling can also give this problems.
Can you open it with fragmotion and export it also in fragmotion. see if there is a difference.
Sometimes this helped me.
there are some new command you can try.
I don't know what they do, but you can give it a try.

skipfvfconvert= 1
FULLBOUNDS = 0
CPUANIMS = 0

Harry

Thanks Harry, but none of that worked. I've never used Fragmotion before, so I'm not sure what I should be looking for, but I Imported and exported and got the same results.

And if you try the command isimmobile =1

Maybe i can also take a look at it.
I use 3ds max.
and in fragmotion you can take a look at the bones and root bone, and there coordinates.



Harry

@Harry - I've narrowed the problem down to the legs (it's a scorpion). When I revert to an earlier model (before I added the legs), there are no problems. After adding legs, I get the problem. The funny thing is that the legs are merely extruded from the body - they're not subobjects, so I really can't think why that would affect it. I deleted the legs and it works fine. I'll try adding the legs as subobjects and see what happens.
Really puzzled that legs should affect the behaviour of the model like this.

That indeed is strange.
hope that helps for you, i know how it is when something is not working how the way you want it.
That can be very frustating.
I had some of that problems with my chickens.spend litteraly days and days to figuring out why they are so jumpy.

Phhhhh.

harry

I'm having exactly this problem too - it's driving me nuts.

I haven't found a work around or root cause yet. I've tried scaling and fragmo export. Even mview/mender in case it's something about the mesh but no luck so far.

Cheers.

It seems to be a mesh problem, but why it's happening is a mystery to me. I deleted all the legs and the pincers and then extruded two very simple legs, perpendicular to the body, with the same problem. No legs = no problem, legs = problem. Bafflling.

Well, I tried adding legs as separate objects, and then attaching them to the mesh, with no luck (the first leg worked, but after that it was the same old story). The body without the legs works fine, the legs without the body works fine, but together they make a poor team. Totally out of ideas now, I'll have another crack tomorrow (unless inspiration strikes). I have a feeling that even if I fix the problem, I won't necessarily solve it, whicih would be deeply unsatisfying.
In theory I could start the script with a series of rapid animation transitions, but I'm guessing the store mods won't like that

Edit : to further muddy the waters - with ischaracter and physics set to 1, the problem occurs. With either ischaracter or physics set to 1, the problem occurs. With ischaracter and physics both set to 0 the problem disappears, but the model doesn't follow the terrain, which is also a problem.

Edit : for what it's worth, I created a new and very simple approximation of a creepy crawly - a box with a simple tail extruded out, and 3 pairs of legs extruded out each side, and I have exactly the same problem, so it seems that it's not so much a mesh error as the way GameGuru deals with a shape with these sort of protruding bits.

So I seem to have got one out of three working OK. I think I had some of the mesh (legs of the dragon) very slightly below '0' on the first frame and I moved these up a bit and this seems to have stopped the model sinking into the ground on start-up. But on the other two models I have this also, but the same approach doesn't work. GG seems a bit sensitive as you say. Frustrating as it sucks up hours of time .

@Cybernescence - in a way I'm relieved that the simple box model also proved problematic, as I've spent nearly two days fiddling with mesh, deleting bits and pieces trying to figure out what was wrong with the it. I've e-mailed Lee asking for help, so hopefully something can be sorted out.

Guys what's about normal in your models? (modify>normal), in 3ds max I mean.

3com

@3com - the problem isn't the visual appearance of the models, it's the vertical position that's wonky. The model in the video starts at the correct height because I'd animated it that way, but then it lifts into the air. If I hadn't animated it to start higher than it should be, then it would have started with legs sunk into the ground, and then lifted to the correct height.

It is a problem with GG. I also tried for hours exactly the same thing as Gtox did.
Make a simple box, extruded it with legs.
And sometimes it sinks in the ground , and sometimes not.

Really weird and frustrating
Harry

Oh yeah I get the point, sure so weird and frustrating as all you already say.
By other hand, almost all my meshes (0,0,0) appears sinks in the ground , in GG editor.
What I do then is (0,0, Max grid height), in other words I put my meshes at the same height than Max grid, so I get meshes at same GG ground height.

3com

@3com - as I understand it, if you have a character with bones, then the root bone needs to be at 0,0,0. With static meshes it doesn't matter - if the base of the mesh is at 0 it will sit correctly on the ground.

what does happen if you set it a little above 0 though?

@smallg - I tried that, no luck. I also tried setting it at 0,0,0 (in theory, the model would start half in the ground) - what happens is that the model starts completely underground, and then rises to halfway. One of the mysteries for me is the fact that it takes about 6 animation transitions before rising to the correct height - if it happened on the first one then it would be fairly easy to work around it. On one test it took more than 6 (about 15) and I got quite excited, but then the same thing happened.

Starting to thing the problem is not at your end, so.

3com

Hi Gtox, did you manage to sort out why characters were sinking with first few animations?

I noticed you have a fantastic 'monster' (reminds me of 'John Carter') working there so thought you may have found out how to resolve.

Cheers.

@Cybernescence - Harry Wever figured out that it's the size of the model that causes the issue. Apparently the powers-that-be are aware of the problem, so hopefully there will be a fix soon. The monster is so big that the issue isn't really noticeable, whereas I had to reduce the size of the scorpion a bit to get it to work.