I own the older version of CD the FPSC I was little upset when I got this last night and found out there the same product, yes GG has many more cleaner functions I give it that but one thing really upset about is your not even using a good version of Lua

Lua 5 is out of date by many years now, this shows you have not really been willing to update the core much, The best version of Lua would be if you wanted all the documentation available on-line is 5.1 this offers more to the end user.

The basic things you had in your FPSC editor as been removed and the product discontinued but the new tool does not have them yet ..... WHAT all your videos state very clearly this tool is a none programming game maker NO its not yet this is miss selling your product and that is a fact.

But don't get me wrong the I am upset is that I liked FPSC but it needed work, so much work I dropped the program, but there is NO branding options at all this should of been your first thing to make in the new creator since you have already have a good idea for the core, NO one wants to see that game was created in GG is also leaves the game under attack, also the game when made includes all the steam ID stuff this shouldn't be there for a end game.

I know this is now a new product and I give it that the speed and user options do feel more n00b friendly over its older versions I never used reloaded so I not sure about that one.

Also this fourm is confusing so many FSPC posts with GG titles dating back before GG was a active product.

I know this was meant to be about the Lua version but soon as I opened the post there was more that just came to my head.

Is there any reason why we can't use 5.1 or even 5.2 ? I see you have not included the luaXX.dll anywhere so this means your including it already in the exe kind of a bad move for people wanted it upgrade the lua core them selfs,

I can't see how someone could sell or be a game publisher with this tool until some of the basic things are sorted

Lua versions and able to update it ourselves would be great, the editor been done so that it can edit the basic things like menus, games save options, how the game will be set up by default like making the game all lower by default and then the end user changing the settings.

Icon changed and also entry clean up I seen that the game editor keeps the none used entries in its list there for its keeping unneeded data sat there I seen no option to remove entry from list.

Level creations should be now the main aim now you have re-branded it as a 'easy game maker' the world as way two many First Person Shooters, we need more actions in the and a better way to manage the levels.

My view here is that you need to provide first off a true and simple way to brand the game without your name all over it we pay for your tool so we should have a easy way to do this.

By this I mean
Icon and file information editor

Start up logo and loading details editor, not everyone wants to show that the water is been rendered.

Save and pause menu tool that enabled the game maker to create games that offer much more.

In the editor when loading a new level have the demo to really load this map not just say jumping to map X
this does not offer a means of testing as a point I created a simple script that said a message and then jumpif like your
win option offers but the stupid editor just said about the game jumping and did not show my message only when the
game was built would it show the message how it was fading out.

I have got two copies of this game yesterday one for myself and one for my partner she is a real test of what your game creator is meant to be, and she has never said so many F's in one go over something so simple, the game editor does NOT work on her laptop as its two new YES two new for the basic resolution on that computer even your editor as well as the games don't work on it, we had to read your forums to find we had to downgrade the resolution, well this is perfetic we can't tell the end user that all the time as many wont even know how to.

Her next problem is that when she is editing and needs to get around a object lets say a wall to the other side she can't the editor is so confusing she just turns it off and walks away from the tool. The option to place things in a building is also stupid as you have to keep pressing enter to get in to the building, what is the point of pre-made buildings if you have to keep messing with the editor to place basic items in it.

She is also confused it says no programming needed but she is unable to do anything without using scripts yes you provide scripts for your demos but NO where do you say this is a must to us once again miss selling and miss leading.

She is also having a really big problem with your snapping tool not snapping right like your videos show.


I don't like the fact I have had to rant here I do like the tool and I do like some of the options it has and I am upset because I can see the tool been more useful if you created it as you advertised it for the n00bish user first then the power user after
I have to agree with many of the steam reviews at the moment its not really usable but I really hope you take this on board I have used many game creators and yours has some really first person goodies what don't have to be crap shooters a good story game could be created here but the basic options are not here.

Where is a entry for basic dialogs when you walk up to them? all over game makers I used have this, is what a n00b user would also exspect click a entry call dialog or message or so on and then in its properties add there message and if its a blocking action in other words the player as to wait until is said good for cut scene and in game movies, or if it just shows on screen.

The above example is what I mean by none programming n00b friendly as I know as scriptors like myself can create messages with a few of the options in there but new members will have no idea about this, I have also been using the editor how typing this, I started it about 2 and it's now 3 and her problems with the snap tool I have also seen and when we stretch a item like a wall to fit it scales from a centre point so hard to make a back wall really fit easy.

So I am not just complaining as someone that as never paid for this tool I own both FPSC and now two copies of GG and I would of hoped for a little more out of the tool.

Not sure you are correct here. My Omega Core Lua extension required Lua 5.2.3 to work properly in Game Guru. So, it would seem they are using that version and not 5.0. It would be very strange for my plugin to work using a far newer version of the library than GG is utilizing.

Game Guru essentially is Reloaded. They just changed the name (and marketing).



I can agree on that. Though I think TGC is well aware. I think I've done too rants myself on that end.



I can also agree with that. I just hope they start looking at the roots before tending the leafs.

My lua version is 5.2

add this line to a script to see what you have.. we should all have the same..

TextColor(50,60,3," ".._VERSION,255,255,255)

I'd really like to address a couple of these issues. Your post is quite long so I'm just cherry picking the entire OP in no particular order.

1) I'd be curious to know what functions you're using in the latest LUA that are causing issues in GG. I haven't found one yet.
2) The ability to rebadge. The files are all there, you simply need to do the artwork. There are several threads on it.
3) Locking a building and entering free-fly mode allows easy placement of stuff inside. It's not perfect but it's certainly not that bad.
4) Unused entities disappear when you save. If they're still in your list, you have legacy entities floating around somewhere.
5) Level editing? Create map 1 & 2. Create zone on map 1 pointing to 2. Enter map via standalone. 10 seconds work. Well documented.

That's just a couple of them. Note that GG is a rewrite. It is still being developed. With good rational discussion and issues listed properly, most of your issues are likely to be addressed.

..oo00oo..
A little more on the coding aspect of GG. You can create an entire game with GG without touching script. HOWEVER... If you want *custom* action you have no choice but to do the *custom* scripting yourself. It would be absolutely impossible to create an entirely non-scripted game for people who want custom options because the variables are infinity. Period.


That being true, you should know this. Every game engine requires coding and THIS is the limiter on potential game developers. GG is making an attempt to remove some of those limitations so that *others* who are not scripters get to experience game making. (tbh, if you are a scripter then it's a moot point complaining that you must do scripting don't you think?)

Have cup of tea, take the dog for a walk and relax. It's about fun, not stress

EDIT

Since when did you imagine we can just drop something on a map and it would operate - as you want - without some kind of control? If we ever evolve that far in "auto AI", I will have been dead 100 years.

Any and all entities in *any* engine must have some control (script) attached and nowhere does GG say you don't need script, it states you don't have to be a scripter and that is completely true given there is a large collection of ready-made scripts that do as they say they do. They simply need to be attached to the entity.

Of course, if the script does not do exactly what you want, someone like you, as a scripter, would use it as a framework - with the engine command set available - and customise. That's how development teams operate. Some do level design, others do modelling, others do script ad infinitum...

There are indeed some limitations still within LUA as a lot of functionality gameplay wise is hardcoded still. Sad to say there is more I could probably do with FPI currently in FPSCx9 than I could with GG in LUA. Though I understand the LUA commands will continue to grow as GG develops further.

I'm confused here Teabone.

For want of a better term, LUA is simply our liason to the engine command set. What's limiting is the command set, not LUA. LUA has a very limited command set itself and I have yet to find a function that does not operate with GG - within the confines of the engine command set.

(I haven't spent much time digging into the C API of LUA because I have found no need as yet. )

EDIT: Also bear in mind (and I think I can recall smallg saying the same thing), if you provide the entire engine command set under the guise of "simplicity" you would open the inevitable Pandora's Box and create more issues than you solve.

You know what I love these replies lol I thought I was going to be bashed to hell lol

To the comment about me knowing about been custom scripts and so on yes I know this, but I got GG for my partner as the promise of it been a all that game makers and they videos do state this very clear, I didn't think about looking in to it as she was giddy with it it was only after I got it as saw FPSC known formats in the file names and also the forum gives it away a lot I was very upset, this tool says its for none programmers, I love we can still mod the hell out of it and like I said many in my post a lot of it comes from my partner user it, I am also not happy with much of it but I do hope it changes I know this might sound stupid but I don't like the fact they have programmed this tool AGAIN for people like me and you that know more about what's under the hood then the people the have aimed it at in there ads and sales pitch.

Also I didn't think about doing a version lua check I was going of there own documentation if it is using 5.2 then that is better then the code I do use myself maybe I should of done that but when the other things are on your mind it all comes out little nuts, my rant though was more about getting them to see there errors there products are good but there sales pitch is to the n00b and there tool is really for the power user at this time they have done this with every version of the tool, if they going to redo it from scratch then they should do it right, some of these things I pointed out was the same thing's other people asked for in ever other version of the tool.

I guess my rant is agest myself here also as I now I saying is limit me for the n00b but they give us the engine they should just give us the hooks also and we can go made making scripts how they can make this tool what they say it should be.

Creation should start from beginning to the end, and the tool might be a level creator but its not indeprened of each project.
The way I would of done it would of had the stock files like we do now, when creating a new project all the defaults are copied over so the default files are NEVER edited much better for system braking functions, the menus and things like this in this editor are DOOM like, old and out of date and limited, Icons and other items are also missing from the basic creation of the game.

I am not them I don't know what there work flow is and I love to be able to get under there heads to find out lol but this is not n00b first like they said and this tool is NOT ready for the market yet, yes when its all done I hope it will be but right now its not.

Until its ready I think they should A maybe have the app for free and charge just for resources like the store, this would if they did it that way anyway would of made this a epic tool free tool and you pay for what parts you need.

Or keep the dam thing in beta/alpha until it is really n00b friendly and get REAL n00bs like my partner lol to test it NOT use not the older FPSC users but the real people that there sales pushing for, well in there ads. Also does this come in CD format or as that been stopped just would love it to go with my FPSC on the Game Shelf lol, but yes I might be ranting but not because I don't like the product, I love it and the ideas but I hate it when any company say its one thing and clearly not doing it even if they plan to.

I think I might of messed this reply up lol if I have sorry I am dyslexic so sorry if I am unreadable at times but I am also half alseep when I found these replies, got to say though love the forum replies so far it feels like you guys kind of understand my rant or viewing it from since you are the power users point of view so ya that was a nice shock

@ !nullptr: I really enjoyed your post and agree with it wholeheartedly! The OP perhaps got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, as his other posts were, if not insulting, pretty rude and at the very least non-constructive. I almost called him out as a troll on one thread. While some of his criticisms are valid, he obviously doesn't realize this is a project far from completion. He also needs a little coaching in the diplomacy disciplines. He wants it all, and he wants it now, judging by his join date (today). I wish him (and the missus) the best of luck in their game creation endeavors!

@Jerry Tremble
I want what the program states on sales, I own both GG and FPSC and paid for it and I would like that the dam thing said, you call me out as much as you want as end of the day it might come across that I just been moody but the fact is bad feedback is also good feedback, this is sold everywhere as a product that can do something not sold as a product that will be able to do something, my partner would never want to buy a tool that WILL provider her with something in the future.

End of the day I know very much how hard things like this can be but this tool is not like is a new baby this is still the same basics they been working on for many years, this is why they have been able to make this better what I did comment on but they people they aim it to in there sales is NOT me and YOU its the people that have NO idea behind programming at all.

No where when buying this does it say this is a working progress or beta program it says the can do this now, and not really they clear say it is able to create games to share with friends, and family and to sale, no not at this stage its not, it might be in the future but the same basic things asked in other tools they have created should of learnt them not to make these same mistakes AGAIN, I am not saying this just because I a new user here I am not I knowing this company for many of years and followed the tool this is why I paied for FPSC after I new its limitions as I hoped it would grow, but when a new tool comes out with more limistions then a tool at lest 6 years ago.

I don't want to have to rant about the product but someone has to.


P.S the date I joined this GG forum means nothing just because they have used the same forum core means F all, my older main account was back in oct 11 and I followed them for many years before then so if you judge a person by a forum sign up date then I guess I am just a 'troll' or don't know anything or even if I WAS new to it all my views on the latter mean nothing OR wait this TOOL was aimed to the new comer to NONE programming or module making to make a complete game, if you can't listen to GG's own ads then please don't even try and follow my posts.

What I mean in comparison to the old FPSC-Classic is, for instance, you could control the camera positioning via "scripting" , raise and lower the water plane in realtime, though within GG you cannot currently do that. There are many other functions and aspects of the gameplay we can't alter or adjust with LUA at present.

Some have read the post and tried to get a more understanding where I was coming from and thanks for that, remember how this tool is sold to the end user and also try see it IF you can from the target user the n00b just like my partner, end of the day she is still more of a power user then most people as she's willing to ask for help but many new people would see this on steam and get it thinking its all that and soon as they see the limitions well mostly demand there money back, it have over 70 bad reviews on steam just for these very same problems so its not like I am the first to start barking here.

Sorry if my post reads like I been a '[MOD_EDIT- Do not swear in any form]' but it as to be said, this tool is not for the n00b NOT yet, there goal might be true there aim is just very off right now.

If you went and got a car with the the options of XYZ and you paid for it and then the car got to you and it didn't do any of them things yet and you also had to learn a new language just to drive it you would feel like you have been kicked in the [MOD_EDIT- Do not swear in any form] by the company, try see it from the point of view of they way there trying to sell this not from your own view of OOoo look I can mod the hell out of this, this tool is NOT sold as a moding tool its sold as 'The easy Game maker' if you forget that read the very logo on this this website.

If I was getting this tool to mess with the scripting I would not complain as that is why I would of got it to be able to intergrate in to the system more but I got this for my partner and myself so she could make something and I can help her along if she got stuck I even got 2 copies of it, so I put my money where my mouth is.

LOL

Fair comment. I come at GG as a new guy and have no comparison to draw on. I tend to deal with what GG is, not what FPSC was. ie: They're 2 seperate products and the help and support is probably best contained where GG is headed - in this current development period - versus where FPSC was in it's much longer development period.

@Rexzooly. I see where you're coming from but some measure of restraint is needed in expectation and definition here. There will *never* be a perfect PnP game engine and GG has *never* promised it is. You have made some fairly broad statements on what GG has "promised" and rehashed to prop up your point.

Put simply, you can make games with GG without coding. You cannot make ANY game without code. Let's keep the definition tight and I'm good with you going off - it means you're human and passionate.

Your join date is really irrelevant, however, if you've been around these forums for any amount of time prior to yesterday, you would know that your rant was meaningless. I judge people on several factors; the join date is irrelevant, unless it appears that you simply signed on to [MOD EDIT - Please do not use offensive language]. I judged you on that point, and for that, I apologize! Your post clearly indicated that you have used TGC products before, yet you seemed completely uninformed about them. Odd. I judged you on that, too! Have you ever noticed the little colored lines under your words when you compose a post? I absolutely judged you on that. The machine is telling you something. So does Game Guru. You do need some basic understanding of things. The days of "Computer, make me a game so I can play it!" just aren't here yet. The engine is what it is at this point. It will improve. The adverts that I've seen recently made no claims whatsoever that were unfounded in my experience, btw. Please, put a link up so the rest of us can see the lies/false claims that TGC is throwing out there. Again, best wishes to you and the missus!

Our of the bat the video on team clearly says no coding required, also taken from Steam 'Have you always dreamed of making a game but have no wish to delve into the mystical realms of programming or 3D art creation?'

You have made it clear you judge people without thinking so anyway,I also have made it clear I have problem with it comes to spellings, granmer/ other spelling related stuff this is what dyslexia is if your not going to educate your self I help you, if we don't know the spelling for it how the hell we going to know if the 50 different versions chrome in my case give you is the right one?

I do agree with peoples replies here that I might of been little over the top at the start but my point is still a valid point, I still love this tool I not reply or ranting for the sake of it if I was I be here then gone, no I am doing it as it does need to be said the sometimes out downfall of been geeky is been geeky when creating things for the n00b or none tech user and this maker very clearly states that whom its for but also having for power and options for the power user.

And also your forgetting I am also taking my views from aka THE n00b user the people that would want, I agree the tool could also in the future get there and I, well hope so they been working at this for some time now I sure they want to
get one good engine out what might in the future create some epic indi games. But its not there yet what so far I don't see anyone disagreeing with so no matter how over the top this might read or was at the start I did say rant the point is still valid.

And some major names I seen around the forum have replied very tackful and I respect that, end of the day my rant was not at your or for you but your view is also valid and I respect you felt the need to bring it to the table.

I have clearly stated this remains true... right up until you want custom operation. Your premise has insinuated that it requires no code. Which is clearly not true. As you should know.

tbh, I'm not 100% sure what response you are after, nor I think is anyone interested on a he said/she said debate with members over something that is clearly a matter of perception and has little basis in fact.

All I can suggest is you state your concerns clearly, in a pleasing and succinct manner (that means short and sweet ) and let any issues be resolved for you one by one wherever possible.

Clever people discuss matters. You're clever. Discuss


I'd suggest new users would best be discussing their concerns if they should arise with the support team. I'm not sure they'd appreciate having a self-declared advocate until they get to know you.

@!nullptr sorry that was not pointed at you I forgot to point it at the user in question at the time, I think its time to let this topic lye down I think I got my point out and people have gotten what I was getting at as my point was agreed to even though I came across strong the open post had many factors for that

I would love to discuss the things of GG but I would rather do that form the geeky side of me as I have many points there two, maybe I will create a review later but that wont be posted like this it would mostly take hours to post as it would mean I have to do it careful lol

If you already have a debate post open send it me I love t read it

All good mate. We're all human and I'm aware it wasn't directed at anyone specifically.

Puts on best y'all accent - You was just howling at the moon some

For me, tomorrow is a new day, I'm off to bed and may my dreams be full of perfect code and well behaved, intelligent game creators. There are just so many here.

i cant see why you're saying it's not aimed at non-coders, you can click a soldier and place him, you can pick another type of character and place him, you can add a door, you can add exploding barrels, triggers to bring in more enemies, keys for the doors, weapons and health, level swapping, checkpoints etc... all these items require no coding or even looking at scripts... you simply place them on the map and play - and dont forget multiplayer....

the product is released but it is not finished yet, they say you can create a game - it doesnt specify that it'll be a fully featured game, that's not possible yet.

i agree it's not perfect for a complete beginner (mostly because it's still very much a WIP) but compared to a lot of the other options out there i would say it does very well at being easy to learn.

This idea is not the met here, since gameguru is not linear (at least should not be), so when you add a new feaure to the engine, this can negatively affect something you already did months ago, this will force you to return often back, to fix it.
I think this is one reason why we have features that we feel that them should not be yet; but this helps to adapt the engine so it can work with them, it is much better to do it now, not wait at the end and discover that a new feature, it can affect the whole engine.

Also there is a mem blocks limitation than gg should handle, and distribute them intelligently.

3com