Product Chat / Widget is Wacky

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tomjscott
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Posted: 25th May 2015 04:24
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The free flight edit mode widget is wacky. It jumps around in the scene unexpectedly and is sometime difficult to use. In addition, the little buttons to select the different features (move, scale, rotate, etc.) are hard to read. The text can be very tiny and hard to see.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 05:47
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I've noticed the same thing (the widget jumping around)- makes accurate positioning quite tricky.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 12:54
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it can be a bit jumpy in certain directions or height. It is being worked on more.
It is best to try and get a perspective view on it, especially when doing height.

And I agree that the transparency is very light and hard to see on certain colors at times.

@TomScott: What screen res are you using? I am at 1680 x 1050, and it seems to be a decent size, but I could see it being very small for setting larger then that for sure.

Thanks for posting.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 14:22 Edited at: 25th May 2015 14:25
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Right now I'm limited to 1280x1024 because my main monitor is dead and I'm stuck with my smaller one. One suggestion I would make it to have some toolbar and hotkey alternatives to the functions of the widget.

EDIT: And the widget should never change position. I've never seen a program move the widget around. Check out other 3D apps for examples.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 15:29
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Oh I thought widget moving about is great .....
When you zoom in and the widget goes off screen click and it comes into view ...
one of the editors best features I think ..
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tomjscott
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:21
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Quote: "Oh I thought widget moving about is great .....
When you zoom in and the widget goes off screen click and it comes into view ...
one of the editors best features I think .."


I guess the rest of the world just doesn't quite get it then.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:29 Edited at: 25th May 2015 16:30
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If I remember correctly this was requested to keep the widget in view from any angle and very close work..
at all times.
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tomjscott
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:36
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I'm really not trying to be difficult. It's just that I've never seen such behavior before in a 3D app, modeling or engine, and the traditional behavior has always worked quite well and this new behavior just doesn't IMO.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:56
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I too think it is helpful that the widget moves, maybe a toggle in the config could be added to solve this debate.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:57 Edited at: 25th May 2015 16:57
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Quote: "I'm really not trying to be difficult"


I never thought you were ....
But I remember how the widget used to clip the screen when you zoomed in and you couldn't see the menu list but now you can literally zoom in anywhere and wherever you click the widget is in plain view with the menu all to hand ...

It works great ... just maybe different to what you prefer ..
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Posted: 25th May 2015 16:59
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Quote: "But I remember how the widget used to clip the screen when you zoomed in and you couldn't see the menu list"


No, because I never used it before this version. I also think the whole menu on the widget is unnecessary and is better left to toolbar icons or hotkeys. I just know how other apps work and what I'm used to and this widget is just pesky and annoying to me right now.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 17:23
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Quote: "No, because I never used it before this version"


Seriously ... It was annoying back then .... You wouldn't have liked it.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 17:23
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The repositioning of the widget was by popular demand.

We obviously can't please everyone, although we try, but for me this system is far more flexible and resolves far more issues than it creates.

Like everything, if enough users feel we should revisit this functionality, we can consider tweaks when we next look at editor function.

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Posted: 25th May 2015 18:12
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Quote: "Seriously ... It was annoying back then .... You wouldn't have liked it."


Maybe not, but that doesn't mean if it's designed properly like other 3D editors that it wouldn't be better than this version. I'm not saying the previous version was better, because I didn't see it, but I'm saying that the way it works in other 3D apps is far better, because I have worked with those and they work quite well. Maybe TGC should look at other apps and see how they work. It isn't coincidence that every other app on the market does it pretty much the same way. It's because it works.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 20:55
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Quote: "Maybe not, but that doesn't mean if it's designed properly like other 3D editors that it wouldn't be better than this version"


Maybe your right or maybe others don't agree..... as SC pointed out unless there are more requests like this ( many others use other engines and have not mentioned it ) then its assumed users are happy with it .

Make a post in Feature Creep ... That's where I would start.
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Posted: 25th May 2015 23:38
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Quote: " the little buttons to select the different features (move, scale, rotate, etc.) are hard to read. The text can be very tiny and hard to see."


I honestly thought I was the only one having difficulties seeing the widget. Is is a very big problem for me as I honestly cannot read the text with looking very close to the screen.
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Posted: 26th May 2015 09:47 Edited at: 26th May 2015 09:48
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Quote: "I honestly thought I was the only one having difficulties seeing the widget. Is is a very big problem for me as I honestly cannot read the text with looking very close to the screen."


Strange .... Im using a 1920x1080 resolution and fully zoomed in or out the font stays exactly the same size and seems pretty easy to read.
Perhaps you should post in the Bugs section to see if any others are having the same issue or the devs can reproduce it .

Could you post a screenshot perhaps ?
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Posted: 26th May 2015 10:36 Edited at: 26th May 2015 10:42
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Ive posted several times since it came to Reloaded. Two different resolutions as well. I'm using the exact same resolution that you are. I don't really have the best vision though; its related to a brain injury i had in 2013. So I truly felt this was only something that I was struggling with due to that.
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Posted: 26th May 2015 10:56 Edited at: 26th May 2015 11:01
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This is what I see almost fully zoomed in .... and no matter how far zoomed in or out its always round about that size for me

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tomjscott
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Posted: 26th May 2015 13:35 Edited at: 26th May 2015 13:36
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A sample from my system.

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Posted: 26th May 2015 15:19
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thanks for the screen shots.
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Posted: 26th May 2015 15:32 Edited at: 26th May 2015 15:34
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Hmmm ye not to keen on that Tom I must admit .... I don't see it that faint on mine
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Posted: 26th May 2015 18:25 Edited at: 26th May 2015 18:26
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I don't understand why we have to zoom in just to see a menu. It makes no sense to me.

Mine looks the same as Tom's screenshot.
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Posted: 26th May 2015 18:45
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Quote: " don't understand why we have to zoom in just to see a menu. It makes no sense to me. "


You shouldn't have to ...that's my point ...its fine on mine zoomed in or out .... the size does not change .
You may need to send a bug report ?
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Posted: 27th May 2015 04:32
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Tried it on mine as well; I don't see any resizing of the widget menu at all.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 01:25
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In the attachment is the screenshot of how it looks normally. Impossible for me to see. In the second screenshot it shows how it looks when i zoom in to the map - widget becomes somewhat more visible.

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Posted: 28th May 2015 02:40 Edited at: 28th May 2015 02:49
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I think you're seeing some sort of optical illusion or something? Here I've taken a slice of each screen; one far off, and one close up. They look to be the same size to me.

EDIT: The third is an overlay of both images. You can see they're exactly the same.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 02:44
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Quote: "I think you're seeing some sort of optical illusion or something? "


Quite possible. As I can barely see the widget. I have poor eye sight unfortunately. I wish there was some alternative way for me to access the same tabs. For instance I notice pressing the delete key no longer deleted entities. I require some short cut keys. I like that we can still rotate with R.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 02:50 Edited at: 28th May 2015 02:51
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Check the overlay I did of them both. I'm sure the devs are listening to you guys about shortcut keys as well.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 03:08 Edited at: 28th May 2015 03:11
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I get pretty much the same result when I zoom in or out with the entity selected in the centre of the screen. But if the entity is slightly to the edge of the screen it seems to zoom in the widget by a few pixels (which is good for me as i cannot see the widget at its default size). Just unfortunate that I have to have the entity nearly off the screen in order to enlarge the widget.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 19:08
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Obviously TGC have to find a solution that fits all.
I can think of four possible options, as follows:

1- Perhaps one floating toolbar would help.
The bar appears when you select the entity.
The meaning of the buttons is the same as in the gizmo menu.



2- Add an option called Gizmo in the main toolbar menus.

3- Add a new tab called Gizmo and locate the buttons on it.

4- Add these buttons directly on the main toolbar (above).

The latter does not seem the most appropriate, since GG is expanding, and TGC is keeping free space for the new buttons they could need.

On the other hand, adding to the left tabs the option to hide / show, would help save space in the editor.
Just my thoughs

Note: Please do not mind about the quality of the icons, they were made quickly to show my idea.

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Posted: 28th May 2015 19:20 Edited at: 28th May 2015 19:26
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I reckon right off the bat it would help if the opacity of the menu background could be altered by the user to suit their own needs. The graphics themselves have no transparency layer so isn't adjustable in that way and the transparency seems to taken from diffuse greyscale, when using certain darker terrain textures the menu shows up a lot better, it becomes real difficult to read when lighter entity's are underneath it.
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Posted: 28th May 2015 22:19
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I've not had any issues with the widget for awhile now. Yeah it is different to other 3D apps such as Blender or 3DS max but in general I am happy with it. I'd much prefer time invested in improving the engine speed myself. I must admit I am not exactly joyous of the new control system in general, I really think holding the middle mouse button would have been a better option than using right click for entering 3D mode.


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Posted: 28th May 2015 22:51 Edited at: 29th May 2015 19:11
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Quote: " I really think holding the middle mouse button would have been a better option than using right click for entering 3D mode."


I much preferred being able to edit the terrain up and down using the left and right mouse button - like the in the past.

For the widget there is another issue I have. Why does the menu completely disappear off screen if the entity is off screen (yet the widget is still on the map just you can't see it. This doesn't make sense to me. (the widget appears larger and more visible in the screenshot because for some reason it increases in scale the more off screen it gets. Sadly this is the only way for me to usually get it big enough to even see).

I would much prefer 3com's suggestion for the widget so I can easily see the options and they would never move off the screen.

In the second attachment is the PNG images of the widget tabs. They appear very clear and easy to see in their original state. (as mentioned by rolfy)
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Posted: 29th May 2015 13:39
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A little off the focus of this thread, but while we're at it:

Quote: "I'd much prefer time invested in improving the engine speed myself."


Amen to that! I would like to see a halt to all the new features at this point, get the engine humming along nicely, get the multi-core working, and then go on with all the bells and whistles! I know there are a lot of folks who think this feature or that feature is paramount to the success of GG because another engine has it, or because they've seen it in a game, but really, if the engine can't do the basics well, how will add-ons improve things?
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Posted: 29th May 2015 13:56
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Quote: "but really, if the engine can't do the basics well, how will add-ons improve things?"


This is the basics.
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Posted: 29th May 2015 14:18
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Quote: "This is the basics. "


I wasn't really referring to the widget or editing in general, in fact I almost put that disclaimer in my comment instead of "A little off the focus of this thread," but I didn't want it to become verbose. Never mind.
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Posted: 29th May 2015 14:26
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Quote: "I wasn't really referring to the widget or editing in general, in fact I almost put that disclaimer in my comment instead of "A little off the focus of this thread," but I didn't want it to become verbose. Never mind."


No problem. Thanks for clarifying.
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Posted: 29th May 2015 19:03 Edited at: 29th May 2015 19:08
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I'm unable to do most of the basics things due to the limitations for me to use the widget. I just need short cuts for each tab than I won't have an issue. I optically cannot use the widget as I like to work really quickly and I find myself always stumped when I have to use the widget in anyway. It forces me to stop what I'm doing and focus on what im clicking. I have not had this type of issue in most editors I've used.

Quote: "If I remember correctly this was requested to keep the widget in view from any angle and very close work..
at all times."


A way to pin the widget in the editor would be nice.

I have yet to post this in the bug thread as I don't feel enough people are experiencing the same issues I am.
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2015 01:42
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I should add that the widget (oddly enough) is bigger when I use 1920 - 1080 resolution. Which is a larger resolution than I was using before. I'm going to edit in this resolution from now on as the widget appears twice as big on screen.
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2015 02:08
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Quote: "I should add that the widget (oddly enough) is bigger when I use 1920 - 1080 resolution. Which is a larger resolution than I was using before. I'm going to edit in this resolution from now on as the widget appears twice as big on screen. "


Same res I use all the time .... That's probably why it looks fine on mine ..... Im not seeing what you guys are maybe ?
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2015 02:11 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2015 02:13
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I'm almost positive thats whats going on. I'm going to stick with this larger resolution, it works much better with GG. I'm happy now

I still don't like that the widget resizes when nearing the edge of the editor window... or that it can even move off the window at all. But thats just nitpicking. I'm completely comfortable with the size and look of the widget when using this larger resolutions.
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2015 03:47
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Is 1920 - 1080 your native recommended resolution ...
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2015 05:33 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2015 05:34
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Hard to say as I use duel screens. But the current screen GG is on now is using its recommended size of 1920 - 1080 and it looks great. So I'm going to work from this monitor from now on. The monitor that wasn't displaying the widget big enough had a maximum resolution of 1280 1024 (of which was its recommended rez.
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