So basically I was wondering if there any updates in this area? I know we have team death match coming to multiplayer, which sounds awesome, but more importantly when can I make custom buildings?

Is the construction kit being worked on, or is it somewhere in the background being saved up for another day?

Hi Duncan

Both Character and Construction kit are both being worked on ...

but is there an estimated release date for con kit and char creator??

the are both really importa for game creations more than other stuffs like multiplayer deeathmatch and so on..

Totally agree. Why are you focusing on such things as Multiplayer? And if you are focusing on it why deathmatch or team deatmatch? Those two game modes are in every single fps game, that can be played online. And so many games sinked because they just copied Counter Strike. I personally had played enemy territory, also in Esl and it was much better experience to play on multiple objectives during the map. Just check it out . Now i play counter strike global offensive and have no interest for example play game gurus multiplayer. And I played a lot of multiplayer..all cods, medal of honor, blacklight, ava and so on...

I think you are focusing on not important things, because you cannot beat Cs:Go on steam and only small group of people will play it. Why we till now don't have simple thing as construction kit? I am affraid how you want finish this engine if we are after more than year still missing this VERY IMPORTANT tool. And yes there are better engines but I pledged this engine(gold) for a reason, but i am not satisfied how nothing is moving forward. When talking about features we have not moved in last year except few features. Till now pre bake destroys my models shading. But no..you are focusing on thing that WILL NOT hold the engine before sinking down.

You must accept that we want create real games. Not just maps for multiplayer. And if i want my own map, then i will choose other engine for that. So please, i don't want to hear another "being worked on" . I am keep hearing it more than year..you will loose people if you will not take care of what people want in first place.

SorrowCrown

totally agree

Hi Guys it doesn't quite work that way ......

Ok so the Conkit , Character Kit are dropped in and then we get the ....
" My buildings or characters are not showing up in Multiplayer " threads ...
Its all a combination of single and Multiplayer so it has to be integrated correctly ...

Rest assured Character and Conkit are being worked on .... in conjunction with the Multiplayer updates ..

ok thanks Syncro for your response..

we all need them both...so we really can get depp into games developement

Just a little thought.... Perhaps it would have been easyer to integrate Conkit/Char Creator first and build Multiplayer at last, when having the basics done...

I cant state the reason why it is done the order that they choose. All that I can say, is that with each update, more things are possible to create. and the way they can be constructed.

Looks like you have been around the forums long enough to see what has improved, and what is being added in.
Having this extra ability also, just opens it up for new styles to be created. When these two kits come out, they will benefit all, and open up even more possibilities in our creation process.

The order now is what the crowd is asking for. then they are separated into standard, and advanced features, that either can be put in , in a day or two, of it is a full on feature, that may need a month or two.

They will pick a happy medium to assure that it is all put in correctly.

I won't really need the construction kit if there was just better vertical snapping modes and the ability to change the view in the editor.

For me, I don't have a use for multiplayer so I'm just patiently waiting for the basics to still be worked on. So... very... patiently.

Yes, I'm around since everything started. And I know that there was a time, it was no matter what the community wants. Stability and great workflow was the first priority. That was good!
The Charakter Creator and Kon Kit where things the community asked a long time. It startet shortly after the beginning of all. And every time we read "It's near!" and things like that.
Now, that it is at Steam, it changed. Coming with Steam was the change in priority, to Multiplayer. Don't get me wrong, Multiplayer is a great thing.
But...I'm working for my Money as programmer myself. So I know a little bit about prioritys in case of Software. And I'm sure there would have been many benefits, when staying at the old prioritys. But the new priority, is the community (just the steam community, I think).
Personally I think it's way easyer to make first charakters (and the kit for it) and THAN multiplayer. One benefit would be, that all multiplayer gamers directly can have a char instead of beeng marked by colours. There would be more basic wich can be used in multiplayer. Now, its the other way. There is multiplayer in it for what must be make basics. Wich way do you think, would have less "don't works in multiplayer mode" errors? I guess the first way, wich you can see at the charakters.

But what Do I know... I'm not the (Steam) community. I don't care.

(Sorry for my bad english)

This Youtube vid about the construction kit is OVER A YEAR OLD and shows exactly the same progress that we have right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8IOw4KxlHo

Regarding that it was released on youtube in February 2014, please allow me to ask how I should expect any progress on the construction kit in the near future when there hasn't been any in the last 12 months?

Segments, Room Blob, Construction Kit... we've given it many names but we still haven't gotten our hands on it.

I wouldn't mind just some extra tools in the editor that would allow me to build interiors better. Than I won't complain about not having the construction kit. I have no idea how to build different level buildings without them being your basic flat box types. Those are easier to stack. But for a massive caving system which is not boxes on boxes its impossible with the current editor. You get clipping and holes.

Also the widget moving up and down ignores your current snapping mode settings (when you press B before hand). We are leaving behind way too many basic features behind... This has prevented me from using the engine. I've been bringing up these issues for how long now? Since the beginning and instead we've moved forward with multiplayer and tweaks for it... can't even make an actual single player level at this point. Just random basic poorly optimized levels. Be nice to know how long I should wait before Game Guru goes back in to proper focus, then I could just take a break from checking in everyday in the forums and return when it becomes relevant for me to do so.

The ConKit is under development, but following feedback from Alpha testers it was felt that we needed a new direction to ensure that users get the tool they need.

We have plans to allow development of interior scenes but general user feedback has indicated that we should focus on improving the entity based 'snap' buildings such as the asylum assets first. This of course, doesn't mean that we won't be adding the ConKit, but that users have indicated that they want us to get it right first time around, and this will take a little while.

Thanks for your patience.

SC

I beg your pardon???

In this one-year-old vid Simon can be heard saying "Lee told me to make something cool, so that's what I will do". Then Simon builds a bunker with something he calls "Easy Mode" and that feature is completely GONE NOW.

So has Game Guru some kind of de-evolved from FPSC Reloaded?

And since they already had one year since this youtube vid from 02/2014, TCG obviously did NOT "get it right first time around" because we have 3/2015 now.

Which makes be expect that TCG will get not it around the SECOND time either.

Who are these general "Users" who are directing the development direction?

How many of them are there?

Where are they/have they been asked? The Vote For Features List? wherever that is now?

Steam Users?

These forum Users?

All current Users?

How far back are these "Users" votes or requests being considered being put into place?

Is there a poll we can see the results of these "Users" voting?

Is it all a secret?

Seems like users have been requesting hundreds of basic game making things since day one of FPSC classic development but I presume only users requests since GG and Steam are considered now.

No idea why I am posting other than it would seem a good idea once in a while. Though probably not, unless I was one of those "Users" which I am not as far as I am aware.

IMHO and from I read into the forum ..conkit and char creator are the generale request from user..but maybe I miss something...

No, you haven't missed anything. These where requested features since the FPSC:Reloaded kickstarter.

The character creator was even a feature requested for FPS Creator several years ago. But then TCG abandoned FPSC for Reloaded - which would include all the features that could not be added too the limited FPSC engine.

Well, that shabby old limited engine at least lets me make a standalone .exe for a single player game that even includes a savegame feature (gasp!).

I guess..this all is a way to hold FPS-R in "Early Access"/Beta mode. That brings money and excuses for everything. If the focus would be to finish (what not meens stopping Development, just make a first final) it, the basics would be goal #1 and all other would be updates for later. But catching the Steam Users with Online Things, makes YET more money. That's needed, since everybody who wanted to pledge did so.

I'm an active lurker on these and the Steam forums and have seen substantially more requests for construction kit than any entity snap improvements. I believe a few members commented that improvements to the existing buildings for snap-based indoor creation would be helpful, but that would surely never allow the freedom and flexibility of being able to construct your own unique interiors without having to buy endless assets or create your own interiors using an external modeling application.

One of the most repeated phrases by the moderators on the forums, especially Steam, is that GameGuru features are driven by community feedback but I'm not always sure that this is the case as, like Uman said, there have been many requests for a long time that remain unfilled. I think the big problem with Construction Kit is that it was originally developed without ANY solicitation of feedback from the community what-so-ever. So, by the time it was found to be too convoluted, restrictive or difficult to use by the internal testers it was already so far along in development that now likely must be started essentially from scratch. I know that multiplayer also came as a total surprise to me and many others, as it was stated for a long time by Lee and Rick that focus would be on singleplayer until it was rock solid before multiplayer would be considered--but Steam changed that perspective I guess.

I have been following the forum posts from day 1 of Reloaded and the swop to GG and one thing
seems obvious to me, we seem to get told this is happening and for single player mode users
that is happening, but since steam GG was born looks like Mufti-Player is Priority now and
all what we got told like the con-kit and other stuff we should have already had by now
2 years down the line have not come to fruition and I doubt they will anytime soon.

If like me I am getting to the stage was it worth the investment, I have so far sunk £600
into this project and so far not been able to develop a decent working standalone full game
due to the time it is taking to get simple add-ons, smallg has done some great work with scripts
that currently seems to be the only real updates for single players, but his efforts aside, we need the propper
simple stuff that we should have well had by now. i.e , Proper Lifts that work, Animated decals (Fire - Steam - Tranporters and more than just one smoke. Con-kit like we were promised and a working Character Creator as the importer
seems to only work with static entities. I have tried old FPSC classic Characters and they still do not work
using Character importer.

If things do not start to turn up soon I think it might be wise to call it a loss and try a new project that might
actually make a fully functioning game.

For the record I want the construction kit... not just an improved ability to snap the Asylum and Warehouse segments together better. To be able to build buildings block by block is what I'm looking for so I can make some unique and interesting structures. That's the one thing that's holding back GameGuru in my opinion, the ability to make custom buildings. I get rather bored of the stock assets... how many times have I seen those in maps... to be able to build new structures would breathe new life into the creation process. Anyone who agrees please post your support. I feel the Construction kit is more important than anything else at this stage of development.

totally agrre as said too much times

I personally actually wouldn't mine more improved entity based snapping. Right now the widget isn't that all too helpful as I mentioned before you can't use the snapping methods once you start moving your entity with the widget.

What made FPSCx9's interior space editing so easy to use was the ability to jump to different level heights. While with Game Guru this won't make as much sense as we don't have a set height like we did for segments. So I'm assuming you guys will have to figure out some smart way of getting height snapping working in some way?

We could technically do what the conkit does now, within the editor itself. Just would require various walls, floors and ceiling pieces and the snapping mode. All of which is already in Game Guru. Essentially the pieces you see in the ConKit demos are static entities.



I honestly was taken back when I heard multiplayer was in development before very basic core features were attended to.



I'm curious as to when or if this will be added. I've always said I want EVERYTHING FPSCx9 had or else it would feel like we are going backwards.

That's the point I'm thinking at switching to unity. Maybe hard to learn but... you know...

You are welcomed to try any engine you feel. Good luck which ever you choose.

Thank you, very nice

Actually, that's not the case. All you have to do, is select an entity; then choose "extract" from the widget menu. Your entity will then use the snapping grid again. Try it.

Hi all.



Sorry, but this is how you solve problems? You just say go and try another engine? We all pledged for a reason, and many of us don't know which community is being heard. I saw so many negative comments on how Conkit is after year and some months still being developed. You just don't listen to us, instead of listening to 9 year old kids from steam community. I am on steam few years, play online games and I know how many kids there are . No serious game developers, maybe few. I was waiting more than year, more than year looking each day on Lee's blog. NOTHING came till now. You are saying to calm down and wait. NO! Sorry, but this can go on another year. Another year of promises, that are not being made...You will loose people, if you don;'t bring something new.

And about that multiplayer. Just like i wrote earlier.... this feature will not keep this software above the water. My friends, all about 25-30 years old gamers(one of them is in top players of Counter strike GO)saw it and just laughed. None of them was intrested in it, because they play AAA online multiplayer games like CoD, Bf, CS:GO. And yes...in many of these games you have kits where you can create your own maps in much better graphics, optimalisation, physics and much more. So think about it.

SorrowCrown

Thanks KeithC! I never knew that.

It has been explained why the construction kit was put on hold. If you had seen it you would have agreed, it was not ready. As did the other 30 people who tested it. I am sorry it is not ready, but rehashing it over and over is not going to fix it.

I am sorry if you feel this is to hard of an answer, You can email Keith and tell him How unhelpful I am.

I have been waiting for feature also, since 2010, but don't rehash it on a daily basis.
Lights, Characters that climb on anything but terrain. I have my list also.

@SorrowCrown



To be fair Mykes Post was in answer to Sanguis below..... He wasn't suggesting anything

Oh no?
I suggested to finish the basics (theres lot more than ConKit) instead of adding things like multiplayer, wich isn't usefull without the basics been done.

I don't suggested everything at once, cause enogh other posters do this. I agree with them.

I am not trying to be harsh with anyone, There is just so much that can be done and learned in this program right now, that it seems just a waste of time to be spending it on what is not there, or how long or many time it has been requested, and we have been ignored. No body is being ignored. It takes order to build an engine with everything in it, that works with such ease.

I am sure that a lot of this could have been thrown in and they could have said, there you go, make it work if you can. But the main goal is still ease of usability for the majority of the users. That is what takes the time to get these features out. making it easy for all to use.

I myself prefer looking under the hood and seeing what is there and what makes it work.
I will change my modeling habits if needed to make this work, I will learn scripting enough to be able to use my own custom animations. I will learn what it takes to bring characters and weapons into this program and have them function. It gives a better understanding and assures that theory is learned, and then applied.

I have done all of this from classic all the way thru to here.

So when you have your request for just one feature that it seems you are waiting for ever for, Think about the other 100 requests from everyone else who feels it is there priority for that feature first.

Sure I have no real need for MP. But now that it is here and can have teams, it just adds to what I can offer people I do work for. More tools more options.

That is not the problem

The problem is, that TCG decided more or less overnight, that the majority is not counted from the backers of FPSC:Reloaded and the users of the old FPSC - but from the Steam crowd.

So when TCG went down the Steam road, they also created a set up to have the perfect excuse to bury all the serious tools they simply couldn't pull off for FPSC:R .

Seriously, the argument to follow the majorities needs is more than questionable, after TCG decided to change their target group in the middle of the development process.


Pardon me for still wanting the features that have been discussed during the last 2 years and not caring about the requests from the Steam forums that are up for just a month now.

Everything would be fine, if the way would be like that. But, can you tell me how multiplayer fits in this? And more important: How fits multiplayer Game Mode like Deathmatch in it, when the basics for singleplayer are missing? That's my point. Multiplayer, specially a Game Mode, is a feature. Features have to be priority after making the basics. Just my opinion.

And by the way... I don't really want to change to another engine. I loved FPS:C, I loved DarkBasic and I still hope that I will love "GameGuru". That's why I pledged. I beleved in GC skills and trusted them. Whats happen now is what politics like to do. Ignoring the basic peaples instead of them who bring fresh money. That's what the steam users do.
You need money to live, that's why I understand it a little bit. But FPS:R/GameGuru is suffers. And THAT's something I dislike to see. With this strategy you will make money in short. But in long terms you have a product wich can't compete. I think nobody wants this.

And... I know that you are just a moderator (and great designer!). I know that it's not your fault and your job here is not easy.

Hardly. Frankly, I don't know where this myth comes from that Steam users are favored to drive the development choices.

Look at this poll which has been around forever and ONLY voted on by pledgers and forum members.

Multiplayer is right there *neck and neck* with ConKit and Character Creator.

Compare the number of votes for IDE Editor improvements and see just how few votes that got. Look how few votes Lua scripting got. Yet they have added lua scripting and continue to add commands for it and they continue to make editor improvements and yet nobody complains that it wasn't what the community wanted.

I wonder if all this "AAA" games were beginners some time, like GG is now; Or maybe they already were born being AAA.

It is a very hard task to achieve consensus when everyone has a point.
Some because they have spent many years supporting the project and do not see their needs and desires fulfilled, and this is perfectly razonabel and fair.
On the other hand, TGC tried to develop an engine for everyone.
I think the main challenge for TGC is trying to please all users, which is not easy when everyone has preferences and competing priorities, it is true that we all agree on some things and not others, and it is assumed that this should mark the way forward, but I find it hard to imagine a boat along the desired by all, when some want to go north and other south direction.

At the end happens what has to happen, someone must decide all the way forward, is a difficult and bitter decision, as they say in these cases, it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

I guess TGC will have their reasons for doing things the way they do, but misinformation can cause much damage. Information can be classified as standard information (sufficient in many cases, for newbies like me, information that I consider quite covered), and information of the highest level, for more advanced users, the latter should be wider perhaps.

Furthermore, imagine that TGC will not reveal its roadmap, perhaps as a business strategy, confidentiality, I do not know, but there was competition is fierce, and there is usually not a good strategy to reveal your plans from A to Z, before taking them out.

So, how to justify your priorities without revealing your secrets?
Uhmn, a difficult task.

Only patience and understanding by all can bring this ship to right port, but how ask this to users takes many years having patience and understanding, as I said before is a very difficult task to perform.

I also want the ConKit and Charkit, but do not want a race car, if they have not yet built the circuit.

I am sure that many of the features we ordered, are already created and perhaps even working, but the engine is still not ready for them, so working on engine development.

I wonder if any of those "AAA" games, was seen at this juncture one day before arriving to become AAA, and if it was so, I wonder what was the attitude of its users, and how they got it out.

As a side note, I would like to break a lance for MIke, for me it is a very helpful person on this forum, and I think that we should not circumvent it, directly or indirectly, I've always enjoyed your help, even things that are not directly related to the program itself, in fields such as 3ds max.

The march of events caused some changes around here, but I think the moderators are covering this area reasonably well, so that others can devote to other things.

Consider now TGC is playing in two major fields, although perhaps sometimes this makes us feel like the older brother, who feels abandoned when her mother spends all her cares little brother.

Well, I'll shut up now, because I see that today I am having very deep thoughts.

And finally, I am against those who are in favor, and in favor of all those who are against.
The latter is intended as a joke, although I'm not sure I succeeded.

(English not my first lang, like many of you already know)

3com

Errant sorry, but conkit should be right from start . This is no feature, this must be somekind of standard. Every engine have it as basic tool..basic tools of Gg haven't changed in last year...we want what we pledged for. No excuses, i want product for money i have spent on gold, especially when i paid also for shipping physical copy!!

You are 100% correct here. That is exactly why it's taking so long. The decisions they make with ConKit are going to ripple through the rest of the engine. It's going to affect how assets are built, how AI pathfinding works and plenty of other things I can't imagine right now. So it is completely counterproductive of them to release a system which is completely wrong. And that's what the ConKit prototype was. The alpha testers determined that it was completely the wrong approach and needed a complete re-do. By the same token, multiplayer also is a core part of the engine as it has everything to do with how networking happens and ultimately how scripts and media all work when shared between clients. Multiplayer is not a feature that can be simply tacked on at the end.

As 3 com said...

And specially Deathmatch not? Sorry, it's difficult to trust. I would REALLY like to know why it's nessesary to make multiplayer deathmatch when basics are not ready.
For ME basics make a circuit wich can be used with the car (game things).

Ok, I have to admit that I'm making only office Software in my job. That's why I know that I have to make network features attached at ready basis. Otherwise everything won't be stable. Perhaps it's fully different with 3D. I don't think so... hope I'm wrong.

@ The Storyteller 01: I have features I want also, and have been waiting too. I have seen the arguments, I hear you. I hear all of the veteran users. That is out of my hands. I was there and felt put off myself. I feel a bit differently today, seeing how the dev team is really trying to get things in the right direction.

I tend to focus, more on what I can do with this program then what I cant. Which is more and more everyday. There has been no change that I cant get any of my custom media in or build in the editor. Yes it needs more features, Yes it needs better camera control. And yes it should have been done a while ago. That I can not disagree with.

@Sanguis: I don't want to leave this engine either. It actually does what I need it to do. Architectural walk thru. It is what I bought it for, it is still very productive at doing so. Although Multi player is not directly useful for me. It does provide me a way to have customers from across the world to walk thru the Architectural stuff I make for them, and allow instant feedback from them. So that has actually has become more useful for me. adaptation.

@3Com: Thank you,
these are all valid points from all. It has just become unproductive, when time could be spent seeing what the engine can do for you today. Plus a good old fashion gun fight in MP is actually pretty fun. And cheaper then going out and getting welted by paint balls.

@SorrowCrown: obviously you have a different view then the voting by your fellow members.
Sorry about that. Basic tool this, basic tool that. But you are dead set in your ways, so there will never be any pleasing you.
You will get your construction kit, I am going to edit myself here, as my comment was not help either. so I am removing this comment.

At the end of the day, I am a user of this program also. and have my own opinion also.

Purple Windows! Good Idea!

lol

Because DM and TDM are the simplest kinds of multiplayer to test with. Don't forget. This is game making software. Not just a level editor. Game modes and rules and interactions are eventually going to be in the users realm of control. Think of Deathmatch as a sample multiplayer experience. Better, more creative uses for multiplayer interaction is going to be up to you, the game makers.

At the moment, multiplayer is a level/map editor. I know that it's good if things can tested. But now, they must test multiplayer EVERY time they attached some basics. They doubled testers work. One for Singleplayer and one for Multiplayer. I don't think this is an effective way to do this. I see many stuck in progresses, because "we must test if it is good in muliplayer, also" things in future.

Anyway... I could be wrong of course. We will see.

Well I would say this thread has been a success... I only posted here to keep the construction kit alive and show that there is still interest within having that feature. I hope I didn't sound like I was moaning about anything, simply creating a thread to see how interested people still are in the construction kit, and it seems people are; in varying degrees. There are lots of views and posts to count for that.

I keep reminding myself to be patient. I must say playing with and following what's happening with GameGuru is one of my favourite activities at the moment. I see such huge potential for this easy to use program.

As far as multiplayer goes... I just wish there were more people playing at any one time. Seems such a shame so much effort has been put into making multiplayer for nothing when hardly anyone is ever online to play with. I could barely get enough people to play decent deathmatch games with... let alone team deathmatch games. If I'm lucky I can find one other person to play a 1 v 1 multiplayer game...

SO where am I going with this? Simply I feel the construction kit will add to the addictiveness of GameGuru. It hands people a major token of creativity. To be able to design their own buildings, patios, walls, towns/villages. The more people who get addicted to creating levels, the more people you will find in multiplayer.

I just love the idea of making a city block by block, building by building. It's the dream to me. Then to be able to share it and play with others in multiplayer is just the cheery on top of this delicious cake. Simply put, I think when the construction kit becomes available in the future, that is the stage that I think GameGuru will be a major product and be able to fend off competition from the other big players. I'm sure when the construction kit does become available GameGuru with become infinitely more enticing to create levels with.

@Sanguis

You're right... it is more testing. And yes... there will be much more testing that is required. There's no way around that if they are to deliver a multiplayer experience worthy of the expectations of those who voted for it. Many of those who voted for multiplayer are expecting to be able to make great co-op games or other types with PvE elements to them. Those users don't want to end up with shoddy multiplayer like Classic had where even doors wouldn't sync up. Sure, it's more work but the devs are amazingly dedicated.

@Duncan Peck

Yes. The basic framework of MP still needs work. I think once there is a way to que in line for a lobby or join a lobby in progress or even see which ones are active there will be more interest. Right now, if you can only see immediately joinable lobbies so even if there were several in progress it would just look dead and there is no incentive to stick around and wait.

I agree that better level making tools will benefit MP as much as SP. But I would also like to point out that the most recent competition has had over 40 entries submitted! Like Myke has talked about... even at this stage of development there is still much that can be done with what we have been given already. It's only going to keep getting better.

Yes, and I don't see that changing this year or next. I feel that the single player experience is also still just a level/map editor. Even if you do create more than one level for a "game" no data is preserved between them so it is really no different than manually loading separate maps in any game. Though I guess this is off-topic for this thread.


This is the unfortunate side-effect of developing a tool without soliciting much of any feedback from the community throughout its development. Most of the threads created by users well over a year ago (like this and this) with feature requests and suggestions were never responded to and to my knowledge TGC never surveyed the community on precisely how they envisioned the tool. The end result was a programmer's vision of how things should operate which evidently was not in sync with what the actual users desired.

Oddly enough if I write in the steam community I get a direct reply from the developers and am informed on what features have been noted/added.

This isn't the case on the forums. So I'm glad I at least found that out a few days ago.