Product Chat / BLOCKing Volumes/Walls/Zone

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PopGun
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 23:22
Where are the blocking volumes. I asked about this many moons ago, everyone thought it was a good idea. Lee, you said you would do something, and from memory, you claimed some sort of workaround???
(like making the entity invisible - but the collisions would remain) so we could effectively drop a wall in - set its transparency to 255, and it will still block without seeing a wall...
but the transparency in the properties does nothing. maybe i am misunderstanding what that property is for?

otherwise - where is the blocking volumes?
every map example so far, you can jump out of, or get to an area which just kills the game play. we NEED blocking volumes or ways to stop players going where they are not meant to. EVERY single shooter game/game engine in the history of gaming has blocking volumes of some sort.

You have Zones for sound/win/etc - why not Zone for blocking - ie it makes an invisible wall/area which prevents players from entering.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 01:23
Can't you just place an invisible/transparent mesh?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 02:03
In PopGuns Defence I asked for this as well in feature Creep
No its not essential an as jerry states there are ways around it ...In fact since I asked I haven't really needed it .
Its all possible if you plan your map with a bit of thought.

But I can still see advantages of being able to drop an invisible wall that's handy directly from the editor
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 02:18 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 02:55
I agree, it would be nice to have! LOL, but I kinda make a living figuring out how to make things work with what I have on hand! Just a bad habit is all!

EDIT: After a little thought here, an invisible mesh is a terrible idea with the current state of object placement/accessibility. By accessibility, I mean we cannot select a specific entity anywhere besides within the editor window itself! In most editors, modeling or gaming, we can select specific elements in our game in a side window, typically in a tree view. We do not have that ability in Guru, and I don't recall seeing anyone even requesting that feature. To TGC: Please put that on your TO-DO list!
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PopGun
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 03:14
i have thought about having just a plain cube entity imported, so it can be droppped in and moved/resized as needed - but i have not got this transparency property to work - has anyone else?
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PopGun
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 03:19 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 03:24
oh, why its an issue to me, is because you can on any map in this editor get on things by jumping/straffing etc. get to the river, just jump out of the map and go there. the mountain stroll one.. just jump up the top or the ledges/ hills with sniper, and shoot everyone (where you're not supposed to be)

most rock entities allow you to scale them - so using the rock wall (with uneven surface) for example, is hardly a wall when you can just jump-straffe glitch your way to the top of it on the uneven surface. ( a flat surface however, you cannot )

also; having used Ued for a very long time, blocking volumes is the standard practice, preventing getting stuck on things also.

eg. imagine you have a house with an fireplace and mantle. - you dont really want the player to get on the mantle - but he could; with a blocking volume over the fireplace/mantle - it will remain as decoration, not as somewhere to get on & possibly stuck.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 04:21
I've never used that property, either in the fpe or in the editor "Properties" menu, but I have made transparent objects in Reloaded before. Do you have an alpha channel in your texture? That was pretty much all it took for me, but that was several betas ago! I tend to try something, try to understand it, commit it to memory (hopefully!), and then move on. I haven't yet made a complete level, and with changes being almost constant, I don't want to spend/waste my time! I did that last summer, and I won't do it again 'til this thing is a little further along. Enough of my excuses, though. All I had was an alpha channel, all black.
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Teabone
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 07:14 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 07:19
I think a mesh would work better than a zone. This is because zones don't check for height I believe. So if you had several floors up or an over-pass the player would not be able to walk past from either floor.

The advantages of a mesh is that you can scale them within the editor now

I think in the FPE settings you can give the mesh a texture that is only visible in the editor. Correct me if I'm wrong. The main DDS texture would have to be an invisible alpha channel however. I used to use invisible walls in FPSC-Classic and the objects would have an appearance in the editor so you can find them and move them around; yet be invisible when in test games or built games.

Quote: "typically in a tree view. We do not have that ability in Guru, and I don't recall seeing anyone even requesting that feature. To TGC: Please put that on your TO-DO list"


We have requested it. A lot in the early stages but Lee and Rick mentioned they would like to avoid a tree system. I will always maintain we will need it in the future once we start doing more interior designs with layered objects. Especially objects that are very small.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 12:32
Quote: "I think in the FPE settings you can give the mesh a texture that is only visible in the editor. Correct me if I'm wrong."


Really? I hope you're right!
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 12:48 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 12:49
I played with this last night a bit, You can have any size blocker (entity) you want, apply the pure black texture to it, assign it to that object with transparency=2 and place then around in a square. Mine was 20ft x 1ft x 10ft high. Put a start marker in the center and ran the test game. Can not see the objects and cant run thru them, and since they are 10ft high, cant jump over them.

Problem is when setting it is impossible to see them. My solution was to have a red grid on a black background with transparency. I called it black_d2, the same as the invisible texture for rendering. I use that one and place the blocker objects in the editor. After I place all the blockers that I want. I then rename the gridded texture to another name, and replace the original one back. Open the editor and you will not be able to see the blocker except when you run your mouse over them.

Not a perfect solution, but one that is effective. As this can be scaled in the editor, it can be scaled to what size I need.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 13:00
Good information, Myke!
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 13:53
Rolfy made one here a while back but the files gone now
His you could see in the editor.... Pity its gone we could see how he did it ..

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/208361
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 13:56
I remember that thread now, I laughed SO hard at the screenshot!
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HarryWever
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 20:11
I still have the files from rolfy. but i don't know if i am allowed to share them.

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 20:42
PM Rolfy and see what he says.
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unfamillia
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 20:44
Rolfy used the LOD sysyem. I don't know exactly how he managed it or what he changed, but, it was definitely the LOD system.

But, that's Rolfy! He is a magician, a master of his craft.

You aren't allowed to know his tricks, you can only admire them and say thank you when he gives you things!

Cheers

Jay.




smallg
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 21:16 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 21:19
just use a script?

Quote: "function collision_init(e)
CollisionOn(e)
Hide(e)
end

function collision_main(e)

end"


you can then scale it to any size in the editor and it'll stay hidden in game but still visible in the editor and collision will work correctly (which was an issue with scaling objects in the editor before, not sure if it still is though) - i dont think dynamic objects use any more fps than static so not really an issue there?
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PopGun
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 23:38
cant we simply just have an Default Entity Included already for this purpose in a Folder in our Entity list.
Even some basic primatives; A cube, A sphere, A column - all with black texture/etc as Pirate Myke Suggested in his post?
Quote: "I played with this last night a bit, You can have any size blocker (entity) you want, apply the pure black texture to it, assign it to that object with transparency=2 and place then around in a square. Mine was 20ft x 1ft x 10ft high. Put a start marker in the center and ran the test game. Can not see the objects and cant run thru them, and since they are 10ft high, cant jump over them.

Problem is when setting it is impossible to see them. My solution was to have a red grid on a black background with transparency. I called it black_d2, the same as the invisible texture for rendering. I use that one and place the blocker objects in the editor. After I place all the blockers that I want. I then rename the gridded texture to another name, and replace the original one back. Open the editor and you will not be able to see the blocker except when you run your mouse over them.

Not a perfect solution, but one that is effective. As this can be scaled in the editor, it can be scaled to what size I need."
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 23:58 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 23:59
You know what would be a great idea...

Something like a trigger zone so we could place it in a gap for instance and use the points to stretch it however big we need it... The only problem is the blockage height would have to be infinite but hey it would stop gamers running up that hill we don't want them to.

Just a thought I may suggest it...
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cybernescence
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 01:08
Here's a blocking zone script. Seems to work OK, at any height too. It will prevent the player entering the trigger zone area that has this script attached to it. Also needs an associated proxy entity - just follow the instructions in the script.

Hope this helps.

synchromesh
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 01:35 Edited at: 4th May 2015 00:41
That's Amazing !!!
You mean my idea of using the trigger zone wasn't so stupid ....
Thanks cybernescence I have to try that out
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 02:11
And there you have it. The resourcefulness of this community comes to the rescue! LOL! Thanks!
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PopGun
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 04:19
woot!
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 04:42
And that is how it works around here. Gold star to the community. Great job.
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Stefos
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Posted: 29th May 2015 13:39
@cybernescence
I get an error when testing "No function called blocking_main"

I don't get it when is this fuction being called for in your code? "blocking_main"
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HarryWever
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Posted: 29th May 2015 14:15
The name of the script has to be the same as in the function. so in this case :
blockingzoneout
if you name the script blocking then you have to change the code also into
function blocking_init(e)

and
function blocking_main(e)


Harry
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Stefos
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Posted: 29th May 2015 14:52
Quote: "The name of the script has to be the same as in the function. so in this case :
blockingzoneout
if you name the script blocking then you have to change the code also into
function blocking_init(e)

and
function blocking_main(e)"


Thanks for that !!
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cycleops
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Posted: 1st Jun 2015 04:13 Edited at: 1st Jun 2015 04:55
Here is an Invisible wall, One side is black and the other side is transparent, just re-size using the entity widget to best fit your game. Hope this helps
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PopGun
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Posted: 9th Jun 2015 09:20
the wall is black from both sides
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PopGun
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Posted: 9th Jun 2015 09:25 Edited at: 9th Jun 2015 09:25
nevermind, i got it working, thanks
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