Any ETA on Con Kit ? I would sure like to make enterable buildings and houses. Also will it be able to make ranch style homes suchas the attached picture of just square buildings?

Lee mentioned in a comment on his blog yesterday that Construction Kit is being postponed until after the Steam launch (tentatively planned in two months), so it is at least several months away from being integrated and possibly much longer.

pfft. con kit is where this is at.

I have to agree with the above post. I have a associate that put his game on STEAM and did not put in some of the more important aspects of it and, as a result, got raped over the coals by the fan boys and people expecting more and experienced less than lackluster sales. His game was excellent, but because he was missing very important parts of it when he put it on STEAM, it felt even more unready than it actually was (it was part of the early access section of STEAM).

If they would have made the game as close to ready as possible and put enough functionality in to appease almost everyone, it would have sold much, much better.

TheGameCreators should have both outdoor, indoor, navigation and the ability to make a complete game with multiple levels finished and working as bug-free as possible before it goes on STEAM. The light mapper and lights should work without having all these problems.

The other solution it to have 3rd party developers creating multi-floor buildings (that you can enter) and entire levels that can be drag and dropped into place - but that gets old fast since everyone would have access to the same objects with the same graphics, textures, etc. Creating your own buildings and sections with the ability to customize it 100%, yet be easy to use is, in my opinion, the most important thing next to what has already been created. Next would be having plenty of characters, bad guys and other people/monsters/animals, etc to place in your levels. Partnering with Mixamo Fuse, DAZ, Poser and other character creators would be the smartest thing you could do - make it super easy to import their ready-to-play models with rigs and animations which TGC would not have to then re-create - why create the wheel twice when there are plenty of available solutions. Just import FBX and Collada and all is well.

Mike

I think the construction kit is one of the most important features... so I am compelled to say it would be a mistake to launch FPSC:Reloaded on Steam without it. Also I'm very keen on using it sooner rather than later as I get a bit sick of trying to make stuff in Blender and failing so miserably! I think the construction kit is important as the ability to be able to customize your levels with your own buildings is a major step forward. I've got to admit the construction kit is probably one of the biggest reasons I pledged.. besides the promise of how easy it is to create an FPS game... which it is... the idea of being able to design my own buildings was a key selling point to me. It gives the end user a lot more flexibility and creativity in crafting game levels. I understand that there are more pressing issues which need to be addressed... but I would defiantly have my hopes high that the construction kit will come quickly after the Steam launch. I do hope TGC re-evaluate the importance of it and work to bring it to us before then.

i also wanted very much to play with the conkit this release, guess that was not to be but i would hope like many of you want it defo for steam release if at all possible.. my opinion is st6eam release will be very negative without it, and if tgc want the best possible release on steam should like above mentioned revise the priority of its release..

Would be nice someone making a picture about what steam is.
It looks like steam was the magical solution for all our problems, and I'm not so sure abour it.
I'm very new in game universe, In fact I did not know they existed until I read to all you in this forum, and I has readed here steam have a very large audience, and obviusly this could help, but whats other, apart of this?
As I can understand they are a very big showcase, but whats other, apart of this?

To clarify: I'm not giving my opinion in this isssue, since I have not yet. Only asking about.


3com

steam is a retailer of games and software, its also as I understand it, what reloaded will be using for multiplayer networking. it has millions of customers online for this sort of things. so would be a good way to make reloaded know of. but and this is the big 1.. it also has some rather high expectations as far as user base is concerned. ie steam users can practically make or break a reputation of software/games that are more indie orientated.. tgc WILL have to be careful there I think.

I think an issue here may also be the continued funding .... So here is what I think could work ?

Reloaded is now pretty good and if everything now was sorted....And stable ( what Lee is doing now ) then it would be a pretty good steam release...

Or certainly a really good early access product



However....Then adding the Conkit might put even more strain on the engine and slow things down or cause even more issues. Not a good idea on steam..

So why not have the Conkit in a separate skeleton editor and export the models we make....Then use the importer to put them in Reloaded ?



I for one would pay 50 Quid right now for a Reloaded Conkit Expansion Editor leaving Reloaded to just be Improved without any further complications..

Not only that but the conkit as an empty editor could have so many more functions added ...Hell it could even sell as another version of sketchup sort of thing in its own right ..



Lee must already have a reloaded WIP with the conkit basics in.....Rip everything else out...add new features and a direct X exporter ....Happy Days

Whats more is the Conkit must use multi textures as it is so it would be an awesome tool ..

Don't give them any ideas now, syncromesh - I don't want to fork out 50 quid for the conkit

Thanks for the tips guys.

@ synchromesh
You say like FPSC-Segments does in Classic?
And yes, Don't give them any ideas now.

3com

LOL ... Figure of speech really ... Free for us maybe but sellable on steam ....However I would certainly donate it for a standalone without hesitation

No exactly like the Conkit has looked and works in the editor now....But a standalone version with an exporter.....

So its view screen and tools only.... No other Reloaded features...Basically it would be a model maker for Reloaded.



The main purpose being Reloaded can get on with its progress and we could have an Awesome separate Conkit tool for it

And of course both could then be on steam

Just the Conkit addon later...

Synchromesh makes a very valid point... the ConKit could very well be a completely separate application capable of exporting models that can be imported into Reloaded. Maybe even sold as a separate application in itself. Though I think it's prime use is to be included as part of Reloaded as it rounds the whole package out - the Reloaded package promising users an easy to use all in one game creator. Just to reinforce what I was saying earlier in my post... I don't believe the Steam launch should be without the ConKit. Even if it means delaying the Steam launch a month or two or even longer. It is such a vital part of Reloaded. I would like to see it released earlier (sorry if I'm asking too much!) because hopefully we will see the store fill up with alternative textures and add-ons for the Con-Kit to make it even bigger and better. The more time it is out the more time people will be able to work on creating segments and textures to sell in the store... which people like myself would be very eager to buy!

@ synchromesh

I like the approach you give to the problem.
I would facilitate the job much.
Anyway, the price should vary, according to the pledge you are.

3com

Right now it shouldn't cost us anything really....... It just gives Lee the freedom to optimise Reloaded without any steps back adding the conkit ( Which obviously has problems within Reloaded ) but as a separate program it would not interfere at all .. And probably be less hassle for Lee to incorporate.



People can use Blender etc so it would not be a reloaded requirement on steam now or later...... But as an addon it would be a great seller..

No different than buying weapons pack for it really.....

I don't think I would want to pay more for conkit. certainly not 50 quid lol. but I do agree that it would be good to be a independent software that exports to reloaded some how and reloaded imports from it ect, not sure that's going to happen though it might be more work running the 2 than a, lee wants to do and b, the user wants to install perhaps?. no idea if others would agree with that but there we go.
conkit is defo a must have b4 steam for me or at steam release at least.. but so is multicore cpu support and character creator, I guess we cant have it all if any of it lol that's up to tgc to figure out, maybe its time for some more votes ect on features for steam?!! as a guide for tgc to help make some of those choices...

Firstly for those that don't know Steam is the largest platform for distributed games for PC, MAC and Linux. It has more than 100 million users and has on average 8 million logged in at any one time. It will help fund development of reloaded as well as power the multiplayer and hopefully all the updating in future so no more manually downloading updates and installing. Anyone who wants to see Steam visit the store here http://store.steampowered.com/ create a free account download the client and have a play it is a great tool. Any game that doesn't release on Steam is missing a HUGE part of the market.



The issue with the Conkit was not that it caused issues as such, it did work. However the testers and team felt it was lacking in functionality, for example you couldn't edit in the editor at all only in test game, which for the majority of testers was a big issue. There was a limit on the building size in the build that was being tested. Plus a few more functionality issues that mean it just wouldn't be worth releasing.



An external tool is most likely out of the question, FPSCR is based around being easy to use for someone that has no idea what they are doing. So moving a key part of the software to an external program that requires the user to import into the editor every building seems completely wrong.



The conkit is coming but what is the point of rushing out a feature that will be a major part of the engine, if it is done wrong to begin with and it is released then is altered down the line all levels made with the conkit will be useless and the code will be too.



It makes more sense to make the engine as it is right now super stable without conkit and allow the Steam users to play with the robust outdoor system, multiplayer and decent scripting. While they are funding the project and having fun with the stable build, even though it lacks some features, TGC will be adding a conkit that is worth everyones time.



There is no point discussing the prospect of getting a functional conkit into the Steam build the team will not be able to do it in time, there are only two developers on the core engine they don't ahve time to make the whole engine stable and add what is a huge feature, that much is for sure.

So will Reloaded be steam reliant then like usual steam products .... If so ....Wasn't what I had in mind

I do hope that FPSCR is non-STEAM as well as STEAM - I, for one, would rarely use STEAM for FPSCR. I own AGK2 and installed the STEAM version and non-STEAM version - but I only use the non-STEAM version so I don't have to be online and logged in - plus, my son and I share one STEAM account and when he plays, I cannot run any of my STEAM games or software until he is done. I'd get another account, but then i'd have to re-buy all of my games and software again.



I like the idea of the conkit being external - it doesn't have to LOOK external though - you could easily have a menu item or button that runs the external conkit editor and then when you are done, closes and imports the resulting work into FPSCR - no one would be the wiser.



Mike

There are many benefits to using the Steam version instead and not many downsides, there is a reason TGC is moving to a Steam powered system it is simply the better option for faster development. For example the Steam multiplayer API does most of the hard work and means less time messing around with networking code. Almost all games are released on the Steam platform now so why wouldn't we take advantage of their systems. You can then also release your own games easier to the Steam platform using FPSCR.





You don't have to be online to use Steam apps, you can play most of them offline.





Just go into offline mode when he is playing and you can run any app that allows offline mode, including AGK2. Also have a look at Steam family sharing, it allows to share your whole game library with another account. That way your son can have another account and you can share your games to him.





You can run reloaded just fine without Steam, and there will be a non-Steam version, updates will still be provided by the TGC site. However if you wish to use multiplayer you will have to use the Steam version, there is no non-Steam multiplayer version planned at the moment.

Ye I kind of accepted the Multiplayer was steam only .... but I did not want to lose the non steam version so thanks for confirming that



My exact thoughts
And then the Character Creator that's been talked about..... could be done the same way .....Meanwhile the main program Reloaded just gets better

I will likely NEVER create a multiplayer game. I have no desire to do so. Most of my ideas are FPS, 3rd person games and game engine discovery books - all of which are single player with story lines.



Mike

actually you have to have online activation to play games. and a pain if you are in the country with no signal like at my dads. so i think 2 versions should be allowed a non steam and a steam version. i refuse to be a steam slave, and i remember tgc saying you can have a non steam version.



but after reading the rest of your post next i see all is good in the world.

how are your super computers going by the way?

Making the conkit a separate app is not going to speed things up. For me that defeats the main bonus it could provide. In game editing. Survival games, hell Minecraft, all to some degree have building options. Having an in game ready option we could utilize with some scripting would be massively beneficial!



You have to look beyond simply making a building. You have to think we could make this part of the overall game experience. Limiting what can be built with various options controlled with a simple scripting interface. Trying to script this yourself would be a nightmare, probably not possible in honesty, especially with given available commands. However, if TGC has built this into the engine, and we can then control available media via scripting, we would have a far easier time of things.



So for me Conkit is exactly where it should be, apart from in our hands A seperate util for making and loading buildings would sound fairly ordinary by comparison.



By holding back and making it the product it should be, TGC are certainly within their rights to do so. I am unsure if my ideas are anything along TGC's of course, but I hope they are. It would be a great feature for Reloaded!

Speeding things up was never the reasoning ?

The idea was to allow Reloaded to now get to its full potential without any conkit or Character creator being thrown in the works to slow the engine down and not to speed up production...Having a menu system with ... Load Reloaded... Load ConKit....Load Character Creator.... was just an idea mainly because of the steam release without it.....



We have been there with beta releases.....So what could happen is People on steam buy a release that's stable.....In goes the Conkit and everything goes nuts.......I can handle that ...You can handle that ..... But thousands of relentless uncaring steam users complaining is a totally different scenario....



I hope integration goes perfectly ...The idea of having an all in one is a Game Creators dream but it did not have to be a standalone to as I did first suggest....Just another part of the program that maybe opens up a separate editor so it does not interfere with the current engines progress...



It was just an idea.... A bit like how the importer opens or no doubt the Character kit will...

Perhaps the speed issue was not your reasoning, only my own, as it has been under construction for awhile. I am only stating the potential plus points of having the in game editing features. Having Conkit added later is not an issue for me. It could be released under a beta license as other Steam products do. A "Try this feature we are working on" option, it has already been done even with games. People choose to try it or not. As long as it is stated as WIP no one can complain.

I am a Steam user. I know how things can work there. I also know that many beta games have optional features while being available for sale. Nobody reviews them because of the future features in the works, they review on the actual product as is. Leaving Conkit out until ready is not just a good idea, it is the best option.

Knowing we won't get the construction kit for another 3+ months is a bit depressing. None of the games I have in mind are strictly outdoor scenes. I've made 100's of indoor assets I've been waiting to use... I've also purchased quite a few over the years.



There is one game I have in mind for outdoors but we are too limited in scripting for anything like it. Nothing i really would like to create is currently possible and i dont want to wait another year just to start it :/



I dont want to make a game about shooting "terrorists".

I sadly am the same way m8..

unfortunately at this stage that is the way reloaded is going and when it hits steam most games are going to look very genetic we need the ability to add our own character and even then reloaded is limited to what sort of characters due to bone limitation.

For me swapping heads on a character or swapping the cloths just doesn't do it for me i feel reloaded is becoming less engine more click and play.

How many engines can you name, without having to google, allows for AI modification developer side ?

How many click and play engines can you name without having to google it.I can't name any without googling, I can't think of a single engine that has the same "click and play" feel apparent reloaded engine now has according to you. ?

I think to answer this you need to look at reloaded as a tool you have never seen before or know nothing about....

So a first time steam user would ask..



Can I create my own buildings in the game ?

Yes there will be construction kit incorporated.



Can I customise my Characters ?

Yes there is a Character construction Kit.



can I easily make multiplayer games?

Yes in reloaded anyone can easily make a multiplayer game.



Can I create a standalone game ?

Yes if you buy the Gold package you can create and sell your standalone game



For beginners all this is a complete dream come true..



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now the bigger boys come in and ask...



Can I use other tools like blender, Maya etc to create my own models and use in Reloaded.

Yes you can create models in .X format and use the importer to add your models.



Im an expert ant making my own characters....Is it possible to add the ones I have made.

Yes it is possible to import your own characters into reloaded.



Then we get the people who are a bit like us who may not be experts but want more from Reloaded and this is all just assumptions



The conkit is ok for starters but will we be able to add our own textures and eventually make more complex constructions ?

Yes the conkit will evolve to the state where you can make almost anything.



The character kit is a bit basic....Will there be more selections added like bodies, Heads Textures and such to make our own Zombies or any kind of character we desire ?



Yes the character will evolve and much more will be added so eventually you will be able to create thousands of unique characters.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is of course all theory but it does make me feel to get the best possible ratings and sales for reloaded this would be the kind of scenario that Lee would really want for a steam community and to be honest looking at the questions above to a new audience it all sounds incredible and every beginners dream



If reloaded does go the way of the last set of questions where you can make a completely unique game with the tools provided then at least we really could make our own type of game...Without being Generic.



HOWEVER..... One question not asked that for me is important but not yet implemented...



Can I totally customise my front end with an in built editor so I can make the game completely my own ?

No that is not currently possible...



For me this would be one thing that may just put a downer on things .. It may be the last thing on the list now but probably one of the first things I would want to know.

We are incredibly limited here and that is due to the current scripting limitations. Not all my "characters" are bipedal.







My assumption is the Character Creation kit will allow you to modify from a set of clothes and possibly head (skins) and assign a weapon to them. Which essentially just sets which weapon script to load. I don't think the zombie script will be a part of this. Since the zombies are a complete model from head to toe. If this does happen, id be thoroughly surprised.

@Teabone

All of the things you mention above ... and mine..

Is there any other FPS Game creator out that can come even close to do what you or I have mentioned ?



If not then Reloaded is pretty damn good and of course my list was all theory

Unity 4 (or Unity 5 closed beta) and UDK. To name the most popular few. By leaps and bounds they support character models and scripting for them.



I know Reloaded is very early and the focus right now is to get more funding via Steam. So a lot of creative marketing schemes have been generated with a prompt 2 month deadline - Character Creation + Multiplayer. Even if the forum isn't completely all in favor of these before the Conkit.

Really....they have an inbuilt conkit and character creator....
I was not aware of this ....Apologies

I have to check it out that being the case

Character Creator i do not care for. I want the ability to import my character models, with my own bones, textures and modifiable working scripts. I have never been in favor of the Character Creator feature (for myself) as it doesn't seem to benefit me based on its early presentation.



You don't require a "conkit" in most engines you can just simply place down your models (segments) no different than your entities; with precise snapping methods and camera control while editing. Only reason why I need the conkit is because its very difficult to snap structural pieces at present with static entities.



I'm just a bit livid because I'm finding myself very restricted at the moment with my creative ideas and in the inability to implement them with Reloaded, currently. I should get some rest and calm myself :p

You are right ....
There are a lot of kits available but the cost....My god the cost...
Unity pro $75 a month....
addons ranging from $45 to $95 .... they are not actually built in

That's just to much for me to even consider

Yep! That's why I've been so faithful with FPS Creator. After all my first ever video test was made in 2006, 9 years ago lol

That's understandable if your really pretty competent with Reloaded.....
Im still not really touching the surface of it as scripting and modelling goes

Great vid.....I didn't even get that far in X9

But even now at the stage reloaded is I can imagine your pretty competent at creating a unique game and beyond...
So I understand how you can get so far and then hit a wall of restrictions....

LOL...

I bought this Years ago and remember being pretty gutted at the time and I still have it

I couldn't do anything I really wanted to do...... But there were some good ideas back then.

They were the early days eh

well, I think the main issue is after nearly 2 years its very limited still,



ok conkit, lets be honest here it was a fail... otherwise we would have it in some form right by now..
saying there will be this or there will be that EVENTUALLY isn't a dream come true to me, its a long ass wait that's a nightmare...
multiplayer will be stock media for sometime only so, that will be oh so generic of reloaded, more a game maker than an engine I think.
we haven't even seen what the char creator will be like so no1 can really say if its going to work or how good it will be, fact is reloaded is limited to less than 60 bones I hear for custom characters, that and reloaded don't have a single custom character released apart from stock enemies after so long is also game maker generic city, not an actual engine I can think of don't allow custom characters to be used by now.. and so much more.. how long has it been and the damn lights still don't work for gods sake.. its not looking like a dream come true unless your feeding false hope and bs into the mix... just my opinion though no need to get all mad about it haha...

don't get me wrong here I like reloaded a lot for what it can be used for which is making a game the easy way, but I feel there are a lot of fanboys who don't see whats real and defend reloaded blindly, without thinking or seeing the real state of what reloaded is in..

not long now for steam release, if I understood lees blog the other day he wants a steam build out by the end of the month, cant say they will be happy with the massive lack of features this "engine" has.. its not early in reloaded any more btw guys been 2 years since kickstarter the dbpro is how many years old and reloaded itself still cant build a building on its own after a year plus of dev mode... DISAPOINTING

@Teabone



Custom characters are supported in V1.9 including non- bipeds.



I've attached an FPE (from the up and coming zombies) demonstrating how this works. You simply need to assign an animation frame range for each action. *EDIT* I actually

To quote Lee's blog twice, First Wednesday the 14th:







Second Saturday the 16th:







I'd assume they are working on a new beta for the end of this month; which will see mainly bug fixes and a couple of tweaks from the previous beta. That should only be 2 weeks away! My logic tells me they are releasing it to iron out the final bugs for the Steam release in hopefully 6 weeks time.



As for the construction kit... I'm happy to wait... I think multiplayer will be worth having first.

I have characters with way over 60 bones, which can melee in Reloaded, also use a hacked up version of the rpg to throw things at you. Only thing I can't do with them so far is attach my own flak weapon to these, was a while back now, I can create the weapon but as I remember Reloaded won't recognise any other flak projectile at present, hope this has been looked at



I have tested these characters in latest version and they didn't work, I will take a closer look at the .fpe above and see if they are missing anything, if they work you can expect some new characters in the store fairly soon. Although I suspect they don't work due to code changes affecting the Lua functions in the scripts they used. Probably something remarked out and not re-instated.





Might help if you actually attach the fpe, SC....lol.

Apparently not..... News I heard was it worked very well ....But it was the overall view that it should work in top / down view as well as 3D view.
So that's whats being done I believe ?

well in some ways I think your right, as most of the pvp multiplayer games I have played ARE outside games or maps what have you..

and conkit I think was ment to be ready earlier or alphas wouldn't of tested it so, I guess its not for the lack of trying on tgc part exactly, same goes for the zombies, my understanding is they was not ready for general release either by alpha testers some time back I guess it was?.

maybe tgc needs to stick to 1 thing for longer and not put so much on back burner for later on when it don't seem to work the 1st try perhaps??

like zombies, conkit, perhaps next itll be the char creator or multiplayer or god knows what else to follow lol.. but it seems to me a long term user of reloaded since 1st beta that these put offs don't do any1 any favours..

I don't know where you heard that m8, "worker very well..." was that an alpha testers comments I missed somewhere?

the next said it had functionality issues, building size limit being 1 of them he mentioned in this thread aswell as other issues..

I guess top down is an issue that stops it being tested by a wider audience like the rest of this community but if it "worked very well" why is it stopped being worked on at all and not just adjusted to work in top down editor...



as I understand the nexts comments in another thread conkit is on hold not being worked on at all!! or was it scenecommander I forget where I read it now lol..

Cant seem to find where I read it....Hmmm
I have not heard that its been stopped altogether though...... That's not good news ..