A couple of questions regarding the Escape demo your input would be greatly appreciated.

Should there be a new demo made what would you like to see in it from technical aspect as well as from a game play stand point ?

Game play wise how long should the demo be ? Would 10 to 15 minutes be appropriate.

Considering this will be TGC demo and would like to showcase the terrain system would you like a lush enviroment or a semi desert theme like it is currently. ?

Do you think that the demo should be made in such away that it supports all possible configurations at the expense of detail and other game play elements or you prefer a demo that pushes what the engine can achieve ? There is definitely some debate about this.Objective was for lee to create a level that runs at 60 FPS on his 9600GT, however this does not accurately represent what the engine can do visually, this leaves a bit of a problem that possible clients may feel it's not good enough visually.Should you push it visually you end up with some clients not being able to run the demo properly and end up losing clients as a result.

If you can think of any thing else that TGC should need to consider with their demo game, kindly post your feedback and ideas of what you would like to see or what direction TGC should direct their attention to, to provide a better demo for the engine.

Hi all,

Just to clarify, we've asked WOI to look at revamping The Escape for us, to bring it up to a level where it better showcases Reloaded. So I'm sure that any input would be appreciated by him.

SC

Leave the escape alone as a low end demo.....
Modify or create another showing reloaded at its full potential ....
Create a menu front end that you can select either game so basically it caters for everyone...

Just an idea ?

I think The Escape should always be updated to reflect the new features Reloaded adds. For instance Lee's blog gives mention to fixes towards the stretching of terrain on large inclines, lighting and shadow improvements and the addition of grenades.



If The Escape is left behind while Reloaded continues to improve... anyone that hasn't purchased Reloaded would naturally try out The Escape to see how Reloaded is... and they may be disappointed. Since its built under an older version of Reloaded that may not reflect the engine's current state.

I agree with teabone here, excape should be updated but I see no reason why other demo's for say multiplayer for example cant be made also

That's quite true; having more than one demo would be pretty awesome way to show all the features Reloaded has to offer.

Which is why there has been a comp recently for additional USER created demo's as such.Although I will be altering or redoing the level, my general idea was to redo the level, and create a brand new spanking map based on premise and similar layout of the escape demo.

However this thread was posted to get a general consensus as to a new level based on the escape or altering of the original and pending consensus I will be basing my decision on the user feedback.

However that said TGC will also create various other demo's and multiplayer demo's in future, however this demo is the one they will be hanging on the front door to represent the final and or beta progress of the reloaded and as such I am taking it very serious as it's important to best and accurately put the best foot forward for TGC.

As they may or may not put the demo out there for developer websites to review, and considering they already had weak publicity and bad reviews from some websites that reviewed the demo, is swaying me towards creating a new level for the mid/higher end system.

I hope this better explains it, and what is on the table and the importance of getting it right.

if it's going to be a "show case" then go hard or go home
high detail with as much "wow" as possible would be best, gamers and even newbie game makers aren't going to be impressed by mediocre graphics,
it'll be much easier to put together another basic example for the users who can't run reloaded at high/highest/whatever (which can easily be linked to along with this demo)

I would start with enclosing the level first. At the moment there is no real way to limit the players progress through the map so you can run around the map and beat the game without even playing it. More trees and such will spruce it up a lot, but obviously, I imagine it was kept to a minimum for speed reasons. The game starts way to fast as far as being attacked goes as well. The start position is a little odd and doesn't make much sense. Better to start from a point further away, with a clear idea of where you are headed, and not in the compound to begin with. I also don't much care for the speech at the start, just a bit generic and not very scene setting really.
The puzzles are a bit basic as well, with the same find a key idea at the start and end. Perhaps the last key should be found a little differently? Possibly change it to a remote lock rather than a key at all? Better still, make it a biometric device and you have to fool it into thinking you are someone else That may be a bit gruesome though, lol, although would certainly spruce it up somewhat. I was going to add something like it in my compo entry, but never got round to changing it in the end.

I agree with Dvader. Also I noticed you don't really need to get any of the keys to actually progress. Considering you can just jump over the hills in the beginning of the level and even at the end. If there is a way to more so force the player to bottle necks with enemies this would provide a more challenging demo.

Also at the beginning of the stage I was able to pass through a crack in the wall that is at the corner of the first area you start in.

Keep it coming :p

Perhaps even some more obstacles in the open areas of the map to provide some cover.



I do love how the rocket man just comes out of no where lol its an interesting surprise when that happens.

1 thing that always bugged me about the escape was the ending gate position, it opens up into the rocks and sort of gets lost alittle inside them, please change that lol ;p...
also i agree that the begining is alittle odd placement wise, how did you get there, why are we here ect.

I personally would always favor lush environments to the dry and isolated terrains that FPSC:R has thus far surmised (thanks to the modern day assets being all desert-oriented). I just feel such an environment is uninspiring, with so many contemporary FPS games looking just like that. Give me green environments over sand any day Since it's meant to be a visual showcase perhaps different environment styles could be artistically added at different areas.

Thanks for the feedback, I also need to consider what state the next beta will be in, in other words, will it support a high detailed level example lush.From what we have seen from Lee's blog posts, prebake lights doesn't support more CPU cores at the present time.

However that said it's a game demo, and I have played numerous other engines demo's be it unity the boot camp for example or UDK's example demo's and none of them actually has a game play story example why you find your self at the current position.

Over the weekend I spend some time playing some game of my steam list, and in particular looking at starting position of the player, it really does play an insignificant role, as 90% has an introduction video that is telling why the player is there.However it may result in a more polished game, it doesn't from a technical aspect add any value to the demo, nor is it going to make future clients more likely to buy it as a result of it.

In it's current form telling a wee bit of a story with the loading screens would be more than sufficient.

A few points from myself.

- You shouldn't be able to see most of the level from one vantage point; it gives away too much, and isn't very esthetically pleasing. Much more foliage, and better use of the landscape tools themselves would help this.

- As mentioned; you shouldn't be able to "climb" areas to go around the linear flow of the level. So far, this seems to be an engine/collision issue (to do with terrain height, etc.).

- I think you should go for a "FarCry" type feel, as far as the look of the environment. That will hit it off with potential clients/customers, and give them something they're more familiar with.

- I agree that keys and conditions need to be harder to find, but not in the "needle in a haystack" manner. It should be logical; such as on a specific guard, or at a specific station. You could also incorporate the old "find Key A, in order to unlock the area to get to Key B; which will unlock Gate 1"; for example.

- I think that beyond visuals; the AI updates should always go into a new build of The Escape, that is very important. As such, the level should be created with future AI improvements in mind.

- There should be more of a defined "end goal", visually, in the game. For example, after going through the final gate/barrier, you turn a corner and find a vehicle waiting for you. Which is also something you could play with, as far as "radio traffic" in the beginning of the level. Something like this: "Sgt. Smith, our Team will be at the rendezvous point in 5 mikes. That's all the time we can give you; if you're not there by then, you're on your own." You could even incorporate a real-time timer, that you have to beat the level in....to add more urgency. Just an example.

- There needs to be a decent balance of weapons and ammo throughout the level. Not too much and not too little. Having a sniper rifle lying around (such as up against a guard tower (left by a guard for some reason), with a few rounds in it, would give an alternate way to negotiate an area. Having a secret weapon (such as an RPG with 1 or 2 rounds) is also always fun; but you should have to go out of your way to get it....which would add more risk to it, if the mission was timed, as I mentioned above.

- Ambient noise (music at stations, radio chatter, sounds of nature, etc.) are a must, as it adds more depth to a level.

- Views of the horizon should be limited, in my opinion (other than an occasional ocean view, etc.); you did a good job of this in your winning entry to the competition.

That's all I have for now; good luck. They picked a good Community Member for this task!

Ooooh, I may have ruffled some feathers after leaving a comment on Lee's blog. Glad to see you're on the case Wizard of Id.

- Target mid to high-end PCs. This is going to be THEE showcase for FPSCR. If the Escape demo is a bit of a resource hog then so be it, what first catches a person's eye is a visually pleasing scene. (That's where your talents come in)

- Have to agree with Keith. The Farcry series is your best bet with how to approach environmental look and feel. Even Dead Island could be great to take a look at. You can't go wrong with using a tropical island environment to showcase an Engine, beautiful blue water with contrasting white sands. Palm trees over hanging with lush vegetation at the roots.

- If you have an ocean shore line in view, make sure you have an amazing skybox to really utilize the water reflections. Also make use of a natural breaking shore with white water and foam.

As a scenario, what about a prison break? It is the "Escape" after all? And you're certainly good with making kick #ss interiors.

I'll add more as it comes to mind.

Landman

@Landman, they asked many many moons back it's only now they got the ball rolling

I have submitted the pitch for the new level.

Centered around mountain blockage to the left and front surrounded by forests and open areas, the town center in the midd

Thanks for the feedback guys, the project officially started today with the research phase for the next day or two, as I formulate ideas and designs.I have just send off the first design research ideas to the TGC camp for approval.

So hold thumbs I think you guys will be in for a treat if they approve the art direction I want to take it in, as it's a complete 360 degree turn around and a radical redesign which should have you squealing with joy once you get a peak at the first version demo.Although I haven't discussed it yet with TGC it's unlikely you will be seeing any progress reports or screenshots any time soon, as I am sure TGC would like to keep it under wraps.

Stay tuned, might twist their arm and release a screenshot or two even a video after a few weeks :p