I am no t having a go at the reload team .when you ask anything they say its only a small team. well I am using a program called axis game factory it was put on greenlight last year and its come on leaps and bounds they have a very small .I am not saying any one should buy it. just making a point about what a small team can do. I will be sticking with reloaded because I still think it will be the best and easiest to use .how long it takes I will be there at the end

LOL...I also purchased Axis Game factory ...the whole bundle worth £110 for £6.99 on bundle stars here but its NO LONGER AVAILABLE

http://www.bundlestars.com/all-bundles/game-factory-bundle/



I am glad I didn't pay the full price.....to me it plays and feels a little like an early fps creator especially the Zombie pack....and you still need unity to create a full game ...

That is not an engine built from scratch like FPSCR it is a Unity addon a lot of the work was already done for them. You cannot take the time that this was placed on Greenlight as the time spent developing the tool it could have been in development for a lot longer before that.



There are only 3 developers on FPSCR at the moment and at one point, not so long ago, it was only Lee. They are doing well for a team that size and starting from almost nothing.



Be patient and wait for the next build it is going to be a good one!

Doesn't seem very good I'm afraid.



(Not my video!)

Exactly !! Something else that not mentioned in the Promotional videos which again look better than I thought it actually was......Just as well I got it cheap or I would have been fuming !!

Thought so! The video showed very little in terms of game making and just some premade foliage and character running around. I assumed that it was geared towards players rather than developers as more seasoned gamemakers would see through this charade.

If you're going to show a video then why not this one, which demonstrates the product far, far better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbCLGrw8zbY

Because that video is biased as it is created by the development team and does not actually demonstrate the system being used by an average user, rather it just showcases a few short clips of ideal situations.

It doesn't look THAT bad, some of the features could be used in Reloaded, such as the different brush types and the nifty way of leveling your floor at different heights. It doesn't look a patch on Reloaded in general though, and considering it's Unity based the FPS seems pretty low. Perhaps Fraps was limiting it to 30 fps, it depends on how the video was captured.



I have been a TGC customer since I got a demo on PC Gamer (or Format not sure) of Dark Basic. The scorpion demo wowed me. Compared to my prior programming on the Speccy and later the Amiga, this looked amazing. 3D In BASIC no less! Since then, I have got DB Pro and numerous addons, FPS Creator, AGK, AGK V2 and now Reloaded. All of them are great tools and each have their own quirks. AGK so far being the fastest of the bunch so far from my experience.



Compared to all the above titles, bar FPSC, Reloaded is by far the easiest to work with. At least as far as prototyping a fairly impressive looking 3D scene/game. No real coding is needed in general, and the scripting is fairly simple to get your head around if you have dabbled in any languages in the past when you do want to customize more. I can think of no other dev engine I have worked on that is quite as easy to delve into. I've played with Unity and didn't like the language much, although it only took me a day to get a fun little rally game going with a few physics commands So I can't say it is massively harder than Reloaded to get into, although you do have to code everything yourself so obviously would be a tough job to make a full FPS game from scratch. Impossible if you can't code or lack the time to learn. There's no dropping a couple of entities on screen and just testing here, you would have to code the AI and such yourself. Not something even an experienced coder is keen on, let alone me, or indeed a fair number of Reloaded users!



I think we will see some good improvements in Reloaded's speed next update. Yes, it's been said before for other updates, and we have been disappointed. I think the time spent on this one so far points to TGC really wanting the next version to be solid and reliable. Faster as well, but we have yet to see what happens in this area until next week. I am not to concerned by multi player as yet, but I am sure a few will welcome it. I don't see the point until the engine is up to speed, apart from adding another feature and testing the water of course.



I think Reloaded looking pretty good so far, despite the obvious speed issues. It IS a small team. Just look at other game devs, even Indie ones. Not many have only 3 coders in it. In fact I can't think of any offhand, bar Banished, obviously there are more. Even then, most teams use an engine such as Unity or Unreal, Cryengine et al. Very few develop their own engine as TGC is, and if they do, they have a much larger team in general. So give them a little bit of credit and as said patience is a virtue. We are still in for a long wait before this is finished yet!

Better video maybe....Still no mention of it being a "Unity Addon " which is misleading in my opinion.

It shows results as The next says from the team......I found it to be a mess working all the functions out....very confusing at times and real easy to screw everything up...



Each editor is a separate tool which again seems to confuse everything ....But this is just my opinion of course



If I could sell my steam key you could have the whole thing for my 7 quid back

I just purchased the AGF + Zombie FPS pack today and from early tests its pretty good but like most things there is a learning curve which is why FPSC has until now been such a great tool. There is 55% off on Steam for all AGF stuff at the moment so you can't really complain for £10.



Probably more interesting is Legend of Grimrock 2 which is coming out on 15th October and is fully moddable with standalone and Steam versions. This is also made by a small team and the original game was very well received.



Legend of Grimrock 2 Pre Order Trailer







Legend of Grimrock 1 Map Editor

We can but hope i fear alot of users are thinking this version is taking forever so it will be great. I myself feel even if lee manages to get back say 150fps that will just be what we lost between 1.7 to 1.85 also features being removed well put to the side for the time being will the gain just be that.

I would respond that it's better to see the tool operated by people who know how to use it than someone trying it out and having no clue how to use it. I haven't personally used it myself, but it looks decent. And I still think that TGC should have gone a similar route by making a plugin for a solid engine. Instead of building rendering systems that are taking years to optimize, you could have focused on what makes FPSCR unique and great.

Their website makes it very clear that it works on concert with Unity Free and Unity Pro.



http://www.axisgamefactory.com/



I don't think anyone there is trying to mislead anyone.

Get back 150 fps? I have yet to see above 170 FPS in prior versions, let alone an extra 150 fps :0 . An extra 150 fps on top of what we currently have would be great!
I'm happy with a solid 60+ all the time myself, although some will argue 120 is the aim point now on modern monitors (not mine, lol). Of course before adding scenery and other game related stuff, it would be nice to be hitting 200+ fps at least. To be honest, we could hope for 400+ when nothing is going on beyond a basic landscape, on a relatively decent PC. Starting at 80 or so FPS from a empty map leaves little room for maneuver!

If only TGC could get the occlusion working better so that you aren't rendering 700,000 polys or more at certain points, and basically causing your PC to have a fit (reducing the max poly count down would really help). Also the much vaunted quad system to seriously reduce poly count in big scenes, if it can be implemented properly would be great.

None have so far turned up, but I still hope that they will eventually be integrated. I can't help feeling if they got them working, Reloaded would suddenly become a very useful game engine. Of course, it is all if's and but's at the moment. It may well turn out some of these will never get integrated , but until such time as TGC say no, we can hope they will be revisited.

i paid for agf a long time ago and sent lee a copy of it for his looking over, as I liked the brush tools for terrain making.

he found it less than impressive if memory serves correctly, though he did say it was promising for reloaded seeing how far he could push the options panels ect. this was very early in reloadeds beta release...



I have not kept up with agf as it is a unity addon primarily though myself..



cant remember which beta it was but we have lost over 100fps from 1 of them to now dvader m8, I was getting over 200fps at 1 point on a flat empty map on lowest, now I get about 90fps opn the same...

yea the fps was on an empty map all settings on lowest i sent the screenshot to lee and if i remember i posted it on here also but yea it was a big loss and when you started making your level it wasn't long before it turned into 15fps - 30fps

Difficult to build a complex engine, and easy to use at a time; without being required to be a good coder.
The engine is the basis of everything.
If you constructs a building on a faulty system, this building eventually fall.
First of all I want a stable Reloaded, to handle well the memory, and a thousand other things is clear, but first things first.

3com

Hear, hear!

ok dvader m8, this is beta 1.06 everything on 0 for shadows reflections veg ect

[img][/img]



will just install 1.85 again with a comparison screenshot brb



ok so my antivirus told me 1.085 was a Trojan and blocked and removed it lmao...

3 downloads later and a disk clean and here is 1.0085 sceenshot

[img][/img]



same settings as 1.006 and 1.0085 is 121 fps slower on blank maps abig jump down hill.. so yeah tattie could well of easily lost 150+fps with his twin R9 gpu's. when or if we get that back in 1.009 is to be waited on but if we do its not an improvement on what we had its just a getting back what we had...

I would very much like to see 300fps on a similar map tbh for actual improvements, then that way we can at least do something good with it on the terrain we have.





just noticed in 1.0085 screenshot that water was actually off as well... so I have to change that in settings quickly and make it the same as 1.006 screenshot to be objectively fair brb



ok water back on again now its 92fps not 100fps

[img][/img]



so I actually lost around 130fps from 1.006 to 1.0085

Ok this needs looking at as i almost get the same fps as almighty and this is the specs of the 2 cards so better does not mean better with Reloaded why is that ?

http://www.hwcompare.com/17285/geforce-gtx-750-ti-vs-radeon-r9-290x/

Boy, did this thread take a turn! Back to james1943's original point, and one that has been emphasized everywhere on this site. Reloaded is in beta. It is not a finished product by any measure. They make no claim regarding that at all. Did james1943 purchase the Game Factory while it was still in development? Was it even available while it was? (How many companies open up their development to it's users anyway? For the record, I just want to say I think it's a great idea, but over the past year I understand why most would not, having read comments left by many.) I know Unity itself has been around for several years. As for the video that tomjscott linked to, it looks quite promising, but one look down to the comments on that video, and you will find what happens when someone doesn't understand how to use a tool. You will see the comment made by the CEO (the GF's creator's wife). Again and again and again. I think what syncromesh paid for it is adequate! I might even try it myself, just out of curiosity. However, regarding Reloaded, we are playing a role here in the development of an engine that WE would like to have, and giving feedback to further it so. While the development cycle can be a long one, especially for a small team, in the end I believe (fingers crossed) we will get what we signed on for. I am as anxious for the next beta as the next guy (or gal!) and was especially disheartened the other day when I read not to expect it 'til November, but I have high hopes that the wait will be worthwhile!



Keeping my fingers crossed,



Don



james1943: Did you think your question would gather such a huge discussion? LOL, not much has been going on around here as of late; I think people just want to keep in touch with the product. You're not alone in looking at other options!

actually agf was released as early access, I picked it up as such a year ish ago before most of the work was done to it, even sent a copy to lee as a gift as I have said around that time ago lol..

I had never heard of Axis Game Factory but from the videos it only seems to be a map editor, not any sort of real game creator. It looks like all other aspects of typical game creation, including menu generation and actual gameplay, has to be developed manually through Unity (or perhaps a set of basic gameplay types exist akin to TGC's old 3D Game Maker software). I see this is on sale this weekend via Steam, or perhaps is always on sale, not sure if I'd have the bother to buy it though.

Hi,



We are very aware that performance has dropped, and most of you by now should also know that this is our No.1 priority, with Lee now turning 99% of his focus towards it. We will make some big improvements in the weeks to come and as with all beta products, full optimisations are often not completed until the last few weeks or even days of development.



Performance work wise, we have a lot of options available to us and these include an array of rendering technique improvements, and a full review of the occlusion. We know that you are all waiting for a new release, but the November date has been decided upon to ensure that the update you get has a lot of the features, bells and whistles that you all want. We promise you, that is will be worth the wait.



SC

yeah unity is a must I think for it, it only really used to do a map and some few buildings which you couldn't go inside of, but as I have not used it in almost a year I have no idea how it has changed.. it has some good dev tools for terrain, brushes n such but I lost interest in it after the whole "it only really ment for unity" thing was known.. pity really but what can ya do, im not inclined to use unity myself I don't really like it so gave up on agf quite fast lol.. reloaded for me IS the place to be just wish it didn't have so many ups and downs tbh but dev mode is like that so again not a lot ya can do lol..

james1943 my point was not about agf it was that I would stay with reloaded for how long it takes to get it right. it will be the best engine I am sure .and yes I am surprised by what it started when I read the post this morning

I get sad when I see basic game engines allow for you to move the camera freely in the editor. I'm not a big fan of the F9 mode we have for Reloaded



In reference to that Game Factory vid.







Glad I'll be doing many flights during the month of October. I'll have something to look forward when I get back to my computer in November.

Axis Game Factory is laughable compared to FPS Creator. With all due respect. I've been testing several game creators in a small time and the only one that I kept was FPS Creator. It has everything we need. In Axis Game Factory you can't even create a simple main menu for your game, or any stories or character development. I understand that Reloaded is not very full of flavor at the moment but give them some time to get newer builds out before judging. I'm still using FPS Creator Classic from time to time.

well agf is not a game maker its just a map editor for unity so you would do all of that stuff in unity after making a map with agf, and just an fyi its almost a year from first beta of reloaded so.. and no it does not have everything we need point in fact, is that we have no undo button as yet and that was asked for from beta 1, it is however making its way into beta 9, so I guess that's a plus, but what along time to wait for such a feature if you could call it that..

@almightyhood

Undo is actually already in V1.0085 and will be improved in V1.009

I just took at sneak peak at AGF, and yes there are several downsides to it. BUT I think, as DVader wrote, it has some features that would be great to have in FPSCR. It's not all bad. I think it's bad to just talk down other engines, see what they can offer instead. Take the good features, develop and implement it in FPSCR.

Axis Game Factory is a map editor for the Unity Game Engine, while FPS Creator actually live up to the name. To be honest, we should not even try to compare the two applications. It's like trying to compare Call of Duty with Battlefield.

I totally disagree. Since one of Reloaded's components is a map editor, it is totally fair to compare the 2. You are comparing apples to apples on map editing. Why wouldn't you want some of the great features found in other map editing tools. Reloaded can certainly benefit from using a lot of other techniques and technologies we see in apps like AGF, Unity, Unreal, etc.

this I didn't notice lol, sorry for that and thanks for the info the next m8 ..

@ the next....

there is no undo button anywhere in beta 1.0085!!
where is this mythical undo button?!!

its not in f1 key binds its not on f9 options its not on the top tools bar when in editor mode or mentioned anywhere inside the engine at all LO

Have you tried CTRL+Z? Works for me in 1.0085.

To be fair i haven't been using reloaded all that much recently due to performance but i also didn't know this was in 1.8.5 i thought it was coming with 1.9 ahhh well learn something new every day.

that would be much more helpful if it was documented!!... as its not anywhere not even by the next...
is it ment to be a secret? i wonder now about the next helpfulness for the users!! how many know of this undo function, is it not better to have it well documented and findable? who would guess it was ctrl z honestly?!!

thankyou i will try your suggestion maybe you should be made a mod rather than some others that are... lol again thanks for the info this will be making my life SO much easier now

@the next
a simple mention of this would of be hard? i think not lol

It is not my responsibility to document any core engine changes or put up the change logs, of which V1.0085 does not have one anyway. The undo feature was posted about when the update was released, and was listed in Lee's blog.



There is a button planned for V1.009 (think it is there already on internal) but it didn't quite make it into V1.0085 for now it is just Ctrl+Z which really is standard for any Windows program with an undo feature so I guess we figured it would be obvious



Just remember my main focus is on Web, Steam and Server development not the core engine so I can only drop these hints when people are stuck and I know the answers, I don't know about where or when things are documented.

fair enough

I couldn't find it documented either but simply asked in the V10085 thread ...
http://fpscrforum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=209541&b=1

As for comparing Reloaded with AGF.... So much more going on in Reloaded.....Only fair to compare the Features not the software itself in my opinion.
I don't know how many are going by the video or have actually tried it ?

I think its pretty awkward to use and not to friendly ?

New UNDO menu item in next build:

Fantastic !! So much better

very much agree with above nice 1

I tend to agree about the documenting of new features (even small ones) especially if they are editor hot keys or functionality.

The F1 key bindings list should always be completely up to date for each build. There is really no excuse for not doing this. I remember having a nightmare trying to find out which key removed the tops of buildings until I read somewhere it was the tab key.

The original FPSC manual became totally outdated until some community members put the guide together. I would really like the documentation side of things to be taken care of and if TGC does not have time to do this, please can it be handed over to someone that can do this.

Really !! I thought that one was talked about so much before it happened that everyone new about the Tab Key...

To be honest when talked about it sounded so ridiculous to press tab and remove the roof that I was thinking disaster..... But !!

It worked a treat and I think its a brilliant feature !!

When the product is finalized (that is, when we've stopped changing things around) we will be providing full documentation on the product. As we're in the beta development stage, I figure you would prefer me writing and fixing code than writing documentation. Not sure how to hand off the process of documenting new controls as it's often add by me and half the time I will remove controls or move them about. Very hard (and possibly frustrating) for anyone working with me to keep up, but I am open to ideas how it can be done without distracting me!

Could be other factors other than card alone. Especially as assets are added to a level.
For example, if I have a blank level the same as almighty, I have nice and high FPS (298!) and my GPU is loaded to about 80% or so.



(it drops to around 200fps if I have all the sliders turned up for bloom, lightrays, etc.)

And then in one of my test levels where I have some static scenery and probably 150 dynamic objects all piled up, it only loads the GPU to about 25% and the framerate is way down at around 25fps. It seems like the basic terrain makes good use of the graphics card but entities maybe aren't being efficient about it.

@Errant AI they were blank maps m8