Product Chat / Do you want the Zombie pack first?

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MadLad Designs
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 12:45 Edited at: 8th Aug 2014 12:50
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In this thread: http://fpscrforum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=209390&b=1&msg=2495502#m2495502, Lee asks:



Quote: "I have been getting some brutal feedback on the Zombie Pack from our internal testers who believe the wider world should not be exposed to the current version of the Zombie material until we have more varied zombies, more animations, more elements and so forth. This alas means you will have to wait longer for the pack. I am curious what you preference is here. Do you want a Zombie Pack now and maybe improved at a later date, or wait another month and get a better Zombie Pack as a result of more art and scripting applied to it? One side of my brain wants to release so I can start on other cool things like more assets for the CONKIT and Modern Day library, but another side of my brain wants to make sure the Zombie Pack will well received first time. Bottom line is do you want to wait, in exchange for an improved pack?"




I though I'd do it's own thread to make things clearer, so...



Do you want the zombie pack asap? This does mean more work on the pack and less on the engine.



or



More work on the engine first and get the zombie pack when it's good and ready?

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DVader
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 13:06
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I am willing to wait, if it means they are much improved. I don't think it helps to release official media which people can easily nit pick. Far better to wait until they are more impressive, rather than disappointing.
Without doubt, the engine is far more important overall, that way, when we get the zombie invasion, we can have even more of them!



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Duncan Peck
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 13:09
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Personally I want the zombie pack sooner rather than later. I've been looking forward to it for ages as I'd love to make a zombie game. People can only give feedback on the experience if they can actually use them. I've been checking the forums everyday waiting for release. The zombie back is one of the main reasons I pledged for FPSCR. I thought making a survival game would be awesome. I'd just prefer to have zombies as enemies rather than soldiers, that's my preference.

But in the end it's up to Lee and the team and what they feel is best. I sure would love to go on a zombie killing spree sooner rather than later though!
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TattieBoJangle
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 13:12
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Quote: "the engine is far more important overall"


Totally agree!





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Colosso
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 13:31
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I know it won't be popular, but I would rather have the zombies working like they should before I get to test. As much as I want and need the zombie pack for my test games, I feel if they aren't good enough for your internal testers then the brutally unforgiving community doesn't need them yet.

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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 14:20
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I want nothing but the best when it comes to zombies.

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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 17:24
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Quote: "More work on the engine first and get the zombie pack when it's good and ready?"

Of course, since engine is the core, I'm sure zombies also need the engine improves.

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smallg
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 18:12 Edited at: 8th Aug 2014 18:21
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why not release a small amount now and then the full pack when it's ready?

some people will be very happy with the current slow shambling zombies i'm sure

edit; actually i change my mind we really do need much more control on custom characters so yes lets get those zombies and such working so games can start really getting more varied

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Duncan Peck
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 18:13
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I feel a little on my own here when I say I want the zombies first.. but the engine core can be improved over time afterwards.... surely having the zombies to play with makes a slight delay to engine improvements worth it?

The engine is at a stage where most things you want are already implemented. Apart from melee issue there is pretty much everything there I think. BRING ON THE ZOMBIES!!!
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wildman4
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 18:15
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I would rather wait on the zombie pack until it is a finished product.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 20:51
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Zombies, can wait.

Engine improvements first. Better engine, better characters.

There is still a lot of the core stuff that needs attention. Characters walking on objects proper, lighting, scripting additions for more control. The model importer is of the highest importance in my eyes. Getting that complete will open the door for lots of cool stuff.

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MadLad Designs
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 20:54
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According to Lee the internal testers say the zombie pack is not up to scratch and need more work so releasing it now would be releasing a sub-quality product, would you guys be happy with that?

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granada
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 21:00
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Lets wait a little,get it right now rather than try and fix later .

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Teabone
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 21:02 Edited at: 10th Aug 2014 05:24
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This:



Quote: "Of course, since engine is the core, I'm sure zombies also need the engine improves."




And This:



Quote: "According to Lee the internal testers say the zombie pack is not up to scratch and need more work so releasing it now would be releasing a sub-quality product, would you guys be happy with that?"




So I think it be worth the wait.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 21:10 Edited at: 8th Aug 2014 21:27
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I would wait for it to be done right. The testers have spoken. Brutal feedback from testers is a sure warning or what to expect from the masses on a quick release. Critics are brutal enough. So, I agree with Colosso on that.



Reloaded will be a AAA quality engine one day. It will take AAA effort on TGC's part and AAA patience on our part. We all want the best for our games and that means wanting the best for the engine. The zombies have their turn, and other things should wait in line. Do it right the first time and avoid headaches later. Everything released for reloaded should demonstrate the high quality that is expected. The whole venture might start to get a bad rap if everything released is rushed to the point of being subpar.

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Doomandthepain
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 22:16
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Do you want the zombie pack asap? This does mean more work on the pack and less on the engine.

or

More work on the engine first and get the zombie pack when it's good and ready?

Hem... This is a very difficult question to answer to...
I personnaly wouldn't mind waiting longer for a better result. But I created (and finished) some levels which are just waiting for zombies and I'd like to have a look with them so I could carry on working or st a final point to these levels.
Then... I think I would prefer getting the pack now even if it's not the highest version.

Finaly, I think smallg was right:
Quote: "why not release a small amount now and then the full pack when it's ready?"

Add to the store some zombies characters (3 or 4) with the currents abilities so people who need zombies asap be happy (I'm among that population)
The rest will be released with the full pack.

What do you think about it?
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rolfy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 22:37 Edited at: 8th Aug 2014 23:03
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This pack is part of the silver and gold pledge deal...right?



I would release a sample pack of a few of these to the pledgers and see how they react to it, will get some more feedback before an official release, people cant make a decision based on something they haven't actually tried yet. Consider it a lrger alpha test within the community, in the meantime any core work on v1.009 can continue and if and when the pack is improved those pledgers can download the finished pack.



You do not want to release this onto the store till it is full quality. There was a point made in the other thread where it was stated that you picked the internal Alpha team for a reason, remember that and listen to them, the community in general would likely agree with them when it comes down to it as they are, after all, members of the community themselves. You cant expect the team to be anything other than brutally honest.

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DVader
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 22:40
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Perhaps the testers could pick a top 3 Zombies or such and TGC release those as a taster? With improvements to come. Just an idea, do not presume because I am a mod I get any say , I don't, no more than anyone else who can post here. Perhaps the Zombies are a bit dated by todays standards, but I can understand peoples urge to have something different from soldiers.
I also see of course the backlash of people saying they are not good enough. It's a double edged sword, and TGC will both please some, and annoy others. The other side again of course is the longer the wait the more awesome people will expect them to be. With of course, those who have no real interest in them apart from seeing how they perform. Not me, I'm a Zombie fan generally. I would however like some civilians who aren't Zombies Perhaps who can change into Zombies? Altering the texture as the npc slowly loses his humanity. TGC could use the code for damage and such for other npc's Perhaps, just thinking of general useful things that could be used in different ways.

I'm fine for a couple to be released to keep people happy, as long as work does not stop on them at that point We want the best we can get after all!



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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 9th Aug 2014 01:27
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Quote: "Reloaded will be a AAA quality engine one day. It will take AAA effort on TGC's part and AAA patience on our part."


Quote of the day, in my opinion!

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3com
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Posted: 9th Aug 2014 08:49
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I prefer to wait until the zombies can dance Thriller.

com
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Duncan Peck
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Posted: 9th Aug 2014 12:57 Edited at: 9th Aug 2014 12:57
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I must admit I find it a bit vague "more work on the engine" what sort of features does that involve implementing? If it's the construction kit.. then I completely change my point of view. I'd rather zombies wait. I think that the construction kit is far more important in terms of the options it will open up in level design!
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Titantropo
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Posted: 9th Aug 2014 13:22
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I'm eager to have FPSCR ready to make games too. But you can't make good games with the zombies (or other stuff) at 100% and FPSCR at only 50%. You don't put the cart before the horse, right? But that is what some of you are trying to do. And that would have catastrophic results.

You can use other characters to build and test your games and then replace them for zombies.

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Smartheart16
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 01:15
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I Want The Zombies To Come Out And Get Improved Later

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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 07:09
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I want it all and I want it now ,but seriously the engine should come first

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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 07:18
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Lee said in this blog that there will be a hotfix on Monday that includes zombie support. I think it would be good to include a few zombies with that so it can be a community test. I'm sure at least one or two coders will enjoy digging into the script commands.

I'm sure fixes to the zombies will happen either way, even if the release is delayed. Holding off on it might be (slightly) compared to only releasing major betas of the engine instead of doing the alphas in-between.

I have to agree that the zombie pack shouldn't be a public release (meaning in the store) though until it's 100% and everything is looking good. Engine work is always going to be happening though and could probably wait for the moment. Most of us pledgers want some brains to munch on in the meantime
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Smartheart16
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 23:47
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I Need It Now Because Im Releasing My Game In January Or Febuary And I Need To Test Fix The Script And Modify And This Is What Im Waiting For.

If You Want To Know About The Game Im Making Check Work In Progress Mine Is Named The Undead Escape 2 Ways To Hell

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Posted: 11th Aug 2014 01:08
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This brings up a point, @Smartheart16 why are you planning on releasing a game from beta software?

This is asking for headaches and a missed deadline.
Unless you have solved some issues, that are in the works for TGC. Character collision and the ability to walk and maintain collision on any object that is not on the terrain, No real lighting except for the sun, Weapons just released and are going thru the first phase of people getting them, and testing them, Physics of objects are not being able to be properly set yet. The list could go on right now.

Not knocking TGC's progress at all, development takes time.

Smartheart16, you are just asking for a headache and great disappointment, or will release a sub par game.

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Posted: 11th Aug 2014 10:52
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Hi everyone

My thoughts are that we have waited so long already, whats it matter if we wait a little longer. I would rather get a great Zombie pack than an inferior pack now.

Best

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Posted: 12th Aug 2014 07:07
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Engine work would be much preferred so we can have an amazing Zombie release, is there any teaser or videos that can be shown now? or just wait for an epic release of the Zombie Pack ?

no apocalypse no game
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KeithC
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Posted: 12th Aug 2014 14:23
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Not really needing the zombies right now, so I'm fine with waiting.
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Steohl72
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Posted: 12th Aug 2014 20:53
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Personally I rather see water physics (like swiming and diving) before zombies.

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Posted: 12th Aug 2014 23:33
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I'd prefer to have a better zombie pack in about a month. It's only one month, right?

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almightyhood
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 00:34
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yeah a month is not long at all, I can wait for them.

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Teabone
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 00:55 Edited at: 13th Aug 2014 00:57
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Quote: "I Need It Now Because Im Releasing My Game In January Or Febuary And I Need To Test Fix The Script And Modify And This Is What Im Waiting For.



If You Want To Know About The Game Im Making Check Work In Progress Mine Is Named The Undead Escape 2 Ways To Hell

"




Woah... You should never prepare a launch date for a game build in an engine that is in BETA....

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3com
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 15:52
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I really do not need zombies, we already have a lot of zombies on the goberment in my country.

3com
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cycleops
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 22:52
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I would like the Zombies now, even if they were non animated I would at least help me with setting up a couple of levels I'm working on. Just my opinion but, I'm aware that this is a beta-release (The Reloaded Software) so if the Zombies are not the greatest, it really doesn't matter as long as they are improved along with FPSCR in the future.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 22:56
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Sounds like the majority vote is for us to spend a little more TLC on the Zombies before we let them loose on the community as a whole. I did like the idea of releasing one, so you can have a taster, maybe to Silver and Gold pledgers (i.e. a Zombie Pack of one item) to get a 'cautious toe dipping feel' of where we are in terms of delivering the goods. If any alpha testers reading this can comment in private, we can think more on this and perhaps make a plan.

@Pirate Myke : Good sage advice about not planning releases or deadlines around early beta software! I can add that the new V1.0085 hot fix version now has support for physics weight and friction values. I know I should have documented all this, but my documentation guy is in another country right now and I wanted to get right stuck into coding V1.009 which features such nice things as performance improvements, ambient occlusion mapping, the Importer and a new editor tweak which I think everyone will like.

Although early days, I can say I have made a little progress towards 'improving the Zombie Pack' from an art point of view, but I will reveal more in my blog once I have more on the Zombie Pack revised timetable.

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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 23:16 Edited at: 13th Aug 2014 23:18
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I dunno if its just me but I don't mind fun but I would really like "some" zombies to be pure Horror !!!

The clown zombies look great but in classic there were a few that could really make you jump !!



Im hoping there will be some real nasty ones there ?
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 23:20
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No indeed. Zombies are a serious business!

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TexMan
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 01:39 Edited at: 14th Aug 2014 01:42
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No biggie. I am very anxious, but extremely patient. The software's still in Alpha anyways, so I understand the wait. I wouldn't mind an ETA of arrival though. Or maybe a guess?



&



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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 10:43 Edited at: 14th Aug 2014 10:43
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@LeeBamber



it's possible to have gore/blood support at future ? it would play quite well with zombies pack, like it's happen with Dead Island



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synchromesh
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 18:04
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Oh !!! Love that .... The zombies are great
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Teabone
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 18:10 Edited at: 18th Aug 2014 16:30
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I would love to have a zombie roaming script. Very rarely do they just stand there waiting. The option of both would be nice.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 19:00 Edited at: 14th Aug 2014 19:01
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What we want is a "Random Waypoint" that has a circle around it like the light entity....We could expand or shrink it....The Zombie or character would just roam anywhere within that radius
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Smartheart16
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 21:49
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I Don't Know When The Beta Will Stop The Thing Is The Main Developer Of The Game Is Leaving To Another Country And We Need Him Or We Are Screwed He Might Not Be Going I Dunno?

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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Aug 2014 08:38 Edited at: 15th Aug 2014 08:39
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Quote: "I Don't Know When The Beta Will Stop The Thing Is The Main Developer Of The Game Is Leaving To Another Country And We Need Him Or We Are Screwed He Might Not Be Going I Dunno?"




Lee Bamber is the main Developer.....As far as I know hes not going anywhere ...Holiday maybe ??????



Dunno where you heard that ...
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 15th Aug 2014 12:04
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I love that preview, that looks awesome! 101 ways to kill a zombie!

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Posted: 15th Aug 2014 16:44
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[quote=]the biggest thing that is missing from the zombies is particle system for the limbs. meaning if you shoot their arm, head, leg with a shotgun. they will lose that limb and change animation when limb is lost. for a gore effect blood squirt out of that lost limb. this would be called a wow factor for reload that will give reload and these models more attention. that what also make using a shotgun so much more fun. i think until reload have a feature like this those zombies should stay lock up.

yes QatariGameDev I agree i have said this in another post that the zombies need this type of gore in it. this is what makes killing zombies in in a game so fun. without blood and gore they are nothing but zombies.

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Duncan Peck
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Posted: 17th Aug 2014 09:06
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As Lee said to release one zombie for the moment might be really fun... it gives people the chance to give feedback.

As the other posts say a bit of gore is necessary in the long run. Look at call of duty zombies.. when you blow their head/arm/leg off it spurts with blood. The same happens in the dead rising games. I haven't really tried any other zombie games... through I know there are plenty about.. all this talk of zombies makes me want to make a zombie game!
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LeeBamber
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
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Posted: 18th Aug 2014 11:40
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We've decided to improve the pack. I will let you know in due course when the release will be, and I am sure the alpha testers will make a few hints if they feel the improved Zombies hit the mark.

PC SPECS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Intel Core i7 920 (PASSMARK:5008), NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT GPU (PASSMARK:752) , 6GB RAM

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