I have a question. As a Gold-pledges you're supposed to have access to the Alpha-versions. When will that kick in? After the official 1.0?

Doesn't Alpha come before Beta ?

The first version would have been the Alpha probably....Very early releases are usually considered Alpha Phase.



You have probably already had it or missed it now as we are at the Beta Stages

Well, as strange as it may seem, TGC considers every interim Beta release to be an Alpha release. And they release these "alpha" versions to select people for testing. When those are battle tested then they call it a beta and do a general release to everyone.

As today, all pledges are given access to the versions released (except the internal ones).
I as a gold pledger want to know where are these alpha builds we as gold-pledgers exclusively are supposed to have access to?

Some clarifictation TGC?

What happened is there is a much shorter release cycle and as such a alpha version would be pretty pointless.

It should also be noted that the kickstarter failed as such TGC is not obligated to commit to rewards stated, and as such it is funded differently to that of kick starter, which means TGC can change certain aspects to better suite their development as such it was decided to release a regular betas instead of aphla's and every 3 months beta's.

Unfortunately the change seems to get you hot and bothered just remember you will make the rest of the silver and bronze users hot and bothered if they have to wait 3 months for a beta.The change is for the benefit of EVERY one not just singled out people.Honestly this isn't some thing to complain about, it's minor.You should rather be complaining how awesome reloaded is.

If you still feel strongly about it I suggest that you email rick or lee.

I want to complain about how awesome Reloaded is, it is causing me major issues trying to keep up with it's awesomeness, this should cease immediately

Oh dear, someones got upset...



I just asked a simple question, [MOD EDIT: We do not except abbreviated swearing either]. I'm not talking about any kickstarter.. I'm talking about the information given by TGC when you pledge.

Stop whining.

Steohl72 I understand where you are coming from but he is correct in saying that Alpha's have been given a back seat in favour of everyone getting the Beta's sooner rather than later, it makes no difference to me if silver and bronze pledgers receive these at the same time

That is not the point. The point is to give pledgers correct information.
I think TGC should remove the information when you pledge as it clearly says gold pledges get exclusive access to alphas. Just go and read for yourself.
Or had I missed something?

Would be great if TGC could get clear on that instead of users trying an awkward way of defending TGC... ?

And no, it's no big isue - I'never stated it was. But I was under the impression that everything regarding TGC and FPSCR was allowed to discuss?
If not, except my humble apologies.
I just think that TGC should have the correct information on their site - or simple change it.

I agree and I am sure now it has been pointed out they will do just that

I agree with Steohl72. It was a totally innocent and legitimate question. Totally unfair to attack him for asking.

Steohl72 - We do not accept swearing even if abbreviated, this time it is a warning next time will be a slap!



Everyone please lets keep the conversation civil



I will point this out to Rick and see what he comes back with

I also agree it was simply a question and don't quite get how it was taken as a complaint, so I can understand your frustration here.

We do get an average monthly build .. That's faster than I imagined when I signed up so im kind of happy with that including all the other stuff we have got as gold pledgers..

Agreeing with Rolfy im not bothered if everyone else get the build either.... if it keeps it at this pace without sorting when and who gets what then no probs here.



To put things more in line it would mean gold pledgers get a weekly or fortnightly build and silver gets a monthly ......That would be pointless...I need the month at least to fully test the build we get now.



The more pledgers testing at this stage the better I think

Reloaded information should be correct and clear and not misleading so if it is indeed so I am sure it will be corrected having been brought to light if that's the case.



As to Alpha and Beta versions currently as far as I am aware there is no group of users at the moment that have access to any development builds of any kind other than those TGC development team members directly working internally with and on direct development of Reloaded. I don't think there are new versions of any kind been made available to anyone since the last official general member/pledger release so there's nothing more to go out at the moment to anyone at all and not even the Alpha/Beta (pre-release version) testers.



From Lees Blog we can see that TGC are very heavily involved in a wide range of updating of Reloaded and including many more new features, improvements and fixes than any previous version Alpha or Beta to date. Not sure when the next version of any kind is likely to be available to any users of any pledge level but its likely to be a little while yet perhaps with so much new stuff clearly going on and in for any upcoming releases.



I am sure that as always TGC will release a new version as soon as possible and will be pleased to do so at the earliest possible opportunity so they can move on even further again. There does seem to be a lot going on in the development at the moment and this may take some time yet, I really don't know personally.



As with most users I have no concern of who gets what other than releases should be and have a level of quality test management as best as is possible before general release as anything else is not helpful as we know.

There has been talk about version 1.008 going out to phase 2 contest winners before general release, but not sure if that's actually going to happen or not.

For those who haven't taken the time to actually look at the current pledge page (NOT the Kickstarter page); check here:

http://fpscreator.thegamecreators.com/order.php

For gold pledgers it clearly states "Access to regular cadence alpha builds"; with the annotation as follows:

"Regular Cadence Alphas builds are expected to be at least once a month. Beta builds are expected to be every 3 months."

The OP had a valid question; it wasn't anyone's job to jump all over him. TGC needs to address this, or it will only get worse as we go along.

I myself never actually noticed that...I didn't really care I went straight for gold for all the extra perks
Have to admit it does read a bit weird....If everyone is going to get the same thing the best way would just be to scrap that line.
Alpha builds ..Beta builds...Why confuse things..monthly - ish builds are fine all round and it seems to work well doing it that way.

Gold still has all the extra's and the " sell the games you make " feature to make it the best deal in its own right

Not sure how Steohl72's comment was taken incorrectly......But shall we beat him up anyway J/K

Hi all



Just to clarify, we've not stopped the idea of alpha releases, but as the last few releases have been monthly, there has been no opportunity for alpha versions. Also bear in mind, that alpha releases could contain bugs that full beta versions don't. We felt have to be fair to all users it was better to release fixes more often in the short term than force some users to wait for what was could have been a showstopper for them. This work has lead to a pretty stable version now, and is allowing us to concentrate on adding vital features.



In short, we've not stopped the idea of alpha releases, but very few of the current versions have lent themselves to this release method.



SC

Tried posting this 2 days ago; but the forum was buggy and not allowing me to respond to any thread here:





The reason why TGC needs to amend/fix those lines, or actually abide by them; is because others who are visiting this forum (non-pledgers) may not see the point in pledging gold, if they can get the same access as a bronze pledger. The only main difference is the lack of free media (which they may determine they either don't need, or they can cherry-pick what they want in the store), and the inability to sell anything they make. Let's be honest though, how many people have actually completed a FULL game, and placed it up for sale, in the past? Not many.



The less people buying into gold, means less money for TGC....which "could" equate to longer development cycles; or even features not being added in time, or at all.



Not to mention that some pledgers may not be as understanding as all of us, and want to know why they aren't getting the regular access that was advertised.

same here

Meh he saw "complain" and then thought wow he is a big meanie :p.However the post wasn't directed at him but more a general reply, because there might be one person asking a legit question, then there is usually a Mob that follows with "What he said".


Just wanted to point out the kickstarter failed and TGC is no longer obligated to follow that, However I am not defending TGC quite often they said one thing and did the complete opposite.They do have their plates full, but fundamentally they need to update their ordering and feature page the moment some changes that could change whether a person pledges or not.

That said I still waiting on a reply from rick with regards to GOLD users getting a shipped copying that was mentioned on ordering page.

However if the option exist I would take a steam copy, Speaking of which Rick seriously needs to keep steam up to date, and start working on networking the product, they have done very little on that side of things, some PR never hurt any one, they basically gone silent on that front, they should have kept going on that front.

Indies don't hang out on failbook but rather on 3rd party indie websites, and game developers news websites, Build a press list send out monthly updates, and spend a day updating websites, blogs ect, I can guarantee 100% increase in sales, this in return would provide as with more funds and more features as a result and keep every one happy.

Google search results is shockingly devoid of information on the product.An official wiki page should have been created many many moons back.See now I am complaining :p Seriously TGC you should have had steam updated eons ago.

PR on steam with the product produced up till now would have hurt FPSCR in the long run! Yes you would get far more pledges but the steam community is ruthless when it comes to bugs and even if a game is marked as early access it will still be torn apart by steam users (many of which do not understand what EA is).

Steam is the place to launch whenever V1 is released and not before, we have a nice community here that respects the product and everyone contributes to FPSCR, that will soon change once the floodgates open and steam users start appearing.

Other people may see steam differently but I have seen the effect of steam users on EA titles and they just cannot wait for anything!

The kings of broken games

I am going to be brutally honest about it, I am not doing this for the sake of arguing, but actually feel that that is the completely wrong mentality around the subject, this is the very reason why the kick starter failed.There is no denying it, lack of PR a few websites I can count on one hand doesn't make for a proper campaign, it should have been short of spamming people.Yes it costs money but every thing if life costs money to make money.

If you are fearing what steam users have to say then obliviously have little faith in the product you are making I do know better TGC does make awesome products.

That said I wasn't actually referring to releasing the beta's on steam, was specifically mentioning updating the profile on progress, today we added X feature and tomorrow will be adding feature Y, BTW here is a video clip show casing feature W.It simply means you keep a constant flow of information going.A perfect example of how to do a PR stunt and alpha release is to google broforce, A south african developer that is raking in money big time, why ? The released a polished alpha mean the game isn't even complete yet, they had a constant flow going build a press list and if there is some thing worthy of mentioning they released the press info on a regular basis, in other words irrespective of what state the game was in the managed to spend almost nothing on advertising the product they had to offer and the rewards is paying off.

The object is to build hype before a hand not when the product is released, and then moan "meh the product is a failure, when you did little to nothing to make your product a success, in lee's own words, they are relying on word of mouth.I am sorry but that is hardly enough to get it go viral.You mention to the average gamer even game developer the product you offering they there will be a resounding, TGC who ?

Working on the mentality of we fear what this user base will say or that user base will say, you will be in for a shocker, you will get the exactly same user base regardless of it being a alpha or version 1 to complain about this or that.It is just a fact of life, however as a result of having used many, many other different resources to promote the product you are less likely to feel the impact of a negative review it is a calculated risk you are taking.

Googling TGC and it's products still only provides a handful of results, case and point.You should be doing PR else where and constantly bombard the web with info what is the point of having failbook or a blog or a website if traffic isn't being direct to it from other sources on the web, 2557 likes on facebook great job PR must be paying off handsomely *sarcasm* :p

Point is you don't have to release any thing, you simply need to keep interested parties up to date and promote the product that is all, and it will not cost you a cent other than overheads costs like bandwidth and time.If you manage to get 1.7mil search results on reloaded then you have done a great job.

Alpha or no alpha there is no reason why you can't promote the product, I am not wrong :p

I see your point of view and yes TGC should use whatever PR they can get but there are better channels that using steam at this stage in my eyes!



Its not so much about fearing users but more keeping the userbase small while the first stages are being developed.



Just to clarify my views do not necessarily reflect that of TGC themselves although I think this is why steam has not been a part up till now. I feel that early development is best kept to a smaller group of users that are invested in the product. Get the core done then open the system to the large communities like steam to add features.



I have no faith in users to be patient we have seen many times on these forums how impatient people can be. I would go as far as saying a majority of users have no idea what is involved in creating a large project and expect results now without any thought about what goes on behind the scenes! This issue is even more obvious with steam, users will moan about why is X missing, why is Y not being updated quick enough.



There was a lot of pressure on TGC when the performance wasn't good from just a small community, how bad would that have been if they hit Steam too early. Their priorities are right if you ask me.



To add to your comments on TGC's web presence I have had conversations with Rick and it is clear that getting the word out via web channels really matters but it takes time to get everything in place and to update their websites. For example I am getting Analytics data in place for them and will soon be looking into the SEO on the sites.

I agree not everyone of us realise ..you fix one thing...Another appears....Later you update something ...and an old error pops back that you fixed ages ago

I also agree that now is not really the best time for steam because of those reasons.. How many times have we seen the good old reminder..." Remember its only Beta " and that's just our little community.. Imagine " Its early access " 20 times a day



Reloaded will make a big impact on steam when its far more stable but for now as long as TGC are happy with its current status why should we worry

Its not going to get it done any faster ..

I would image TGC have a good idea of when and where to market and promote the product based on their own business and the development needs and timeline for the product itself.

Clearly any information given out under the prevailing circumstances at each stage should be "accurate" clear and precise avoiding any inaccurate hype at all at any stage. If a product is in development stage then it should be clear what the status is at any stage. What you are getting for what you pay at any stage should be similarly accurately spelt out in no uncertain terms.

In the case of Reloaded having a pledger development system you get a development product until someone namely TGC decide its done to repay the pledgers adequately for their support. That should be clear in all promotional information and as far as I am aware is by and large.

No one should expect a finished product until Reloaded is mature and in consideration of its given features and limitations. At any stage its down to any pledger/purchaser to check out any engine before buying and if its not suitable for your particular needs then you don't buy it. If you still do then you have no complaint.

As to Reloaded anyone that pledgers/purchases it until its a mature product not under heavy core feature development clearly can expect that they will be getting an unfinished development product, not suitable for creating full professional and complete games as distribution ready. Thats the nature of the beast and has to be understood so no one should expect any different.

Clearly and it should be made clear that anything else is not yet a reality and that full game making features under development may well be a very long time away as yet before fully incorporated, stable and functional and that is the reality. Forthcoming and suggested possible additional features may or may not become a reality depending upon commercial and other realities prevailing ongoing. Thats the bottom line and deal when you pledge to something. No additional guarantees over and above whats stated so one need be careful as to what is stated of course during development and ongoing.

The product still has a long way to go and anyone that pledgers in the future and has pledged would be best advised to come to terms with that before pledging. There is and never was any magic solution to box up such a product in any short length of time. Thats simply not and never was realistic.

Given the nature of the Reloaded product and the pledge method of supporting development then every pledger/purchaser should as said as with any game engine purchase make sure they check out fully an engines capability, features set and all other relevant information appertaining to it so as to ascertain its suitability and fitness for the/their purpose and make a valid judgement as to whether or not they wish to lend their support to it. The decision is with the pledger whether or not they decide to do so. If anything is unclear then they should ask and make enquiriess before pledging which many do.

Yes to the point and accurate information should be the name of the game and then the decision is down to the potential pledger to make.

Having made a pledge to support a development product then one does just that and has to accept that its just that.

No one should be made to think or given the illusion that Reloaded is going to make you the next best and your perfect world beating game at any stage during that development or even when as adjust to be worthy of any release beyond any V1 Beta release.

No one should be thinking it does not have bugs at any stage as has been said here though its important to limit those at any stage.

As to potential marketing, sales and promotion off/outside of TGC site and these forums the same applies and no one should be expecting anything different no matter where/how they come to the product from. They can check out the product at any stage during its life cycle and make their decision accordingly. You pledge/buy knowing what you are getting given the information stated and provided is accurate and there is no reason for complaint if you do so. There are no come backs if all is as "Advertised".

If the Reloaded product/TGC and these forums cant stand the heat then it can only be because it does not live up to being "As advertised. If it does then complaints are not vaild and should be rigorously ignored.

That does not mean that TGC should not invlove the user community and ask for user/pledgers feedback and to be up front on that point they have shown themselves to be somewhat well fair on that score to date.

If anyone, anywhere expects the Reloaded product, unrealistically expects the product to be something more than what it can or ever will be then they are likely to be surely disappointed and it is clearly not and never will be for them whoever or wherever they are. It is and will be what it will be and no more and if that is not enough then too much is expected unreasonably and unrealistically.

Reloaded is a low cost indie game making product and thats largely what it will provide for. To that end it is likely to be the best anyone will find at anywhere near the level in the market it places itself.

Have some faith and don't worry too much about promoting it too aggressively until its more mature unless the commercial realities dictate thats necessary.

If Reloaded is any good then no doubt it will promote itself. Anyone remotely interested will find it if they really want too if they already don't know of its existence and if they don't then they are not looking very hard are they.

There are a vast number of potential users out there it is true to say that simply will not yet support it because it is under early and heavy development and as said is not suitable for full production purposes. They simply will not pledge until it is no matter what you do. They look and as said make their decision and in many instances it will be its not suitable for me because it "does not" do what I want, does not have the features and functions I want and is unfinished at all levels.

Most users here pledge because they understand the nature of the beast and want to grow with it. Others don't and they want a monstrously large set of features many of which Reloaded will never and is not planned to support that many other engines provide for and we wont go into those. For many it simply wont do what they at least think they need and want and they may be correct and that includes being something apparently mature, stable and complete they can pick up and run with without their feet hitting the ground.

It takes all sorts and Reloaded is aimed at a specific target group by the nature of itself and what it can offer and will be able to do.

Whatever you cant win em all and hopefully it will be enough.

Anyway on the specific topic I agree, keep it truthful and accurate with not too much over hype as you cant no matter what you do make it what it is not and will be - honesty is the best policy and will pay dividends in the end.

You cant satisfy everyone or even anyone but you can make a good product within the limits of what can be achieved. No more can be done and the rest is down to us individuals as to how we respond to that.

It would only damage the product to put it up to Steam at this point. Lee's blog has a day to day update on ongoing work done on Reloaded and is really informative, however not everyone visits this. Perhaps it would be a good idea to port it over here as well as a locked update thread in it's own right. If folks want to comment they can jump over to his blog to do it, might just get a little more traffic that way too



Wouldn't take much to do this, simply copy/paste each day. New users visiting here would instantly see the progress and current users are reminded it is not a complete product yet.

am surprised this hasnt been done already but i agree.
steam can wait for a solid release (beta is still ok but it really needs more content and polish otherwise people will just see a very basic looking piece of software and not understand it's true power - TGC have a good number of products, anyone who has been around any of their products should know of reloaded by now and these are the main people who will really appreciate/use the product, so long as TGC can keep the project alive in the long run releasing later will give back more reward.

as for the original topic... not really interested in alphas myself, too many issues to work through but i guess if you have both versions it's ok, i think the current time gaps are fine as we have a lot more functions to play with and bug fixing on the ones we already have takes quite a lot of time already

Do you have a link to Lees Blog... I have seen it but keep losing it
A link on the top of this site would be good ?

SERIOUSLY ! I know I write like a illiterate sloth some times, every single person managed to miss the part I said about just updating the page with new info....NOT upload the beta ? Update the page, I said that from the first page, really.Why on earth would "INFO" be damaging, you already too the first step in uploading the page with info, and if you look at the page there is already a growing mass of annoyed people.

Again with the steam Userbase, you have some thing to prove, then do so, on whatever terms you want, however to put it selfishly you don't PR the user base you have now suffer because you lack funding, either way I would stop concentrating on what steam will or won't say take the plunge and update the page at least once with new info, gauge how it's received and proceed from there.Steam is massive I mean the only hit 8 million concurrent connections yesterday.

TGC would be lucky to get 2% of the user base, Not updating the page already leaves a source taste in peoples mouths, more often people will simply ignore the product as a result.Cherry picking info, is going to back fire, be honest be straight forward like Lee is on the blog, simply can't see how you will fail.

As mentioned failbook isn't drawing people either at least you can moderate the trolls, it's considered censorship.However that said it's clear that the user base has a very negative view on PR, just remember good or bad and with the correct time and well executed plan regardless of a small negative user base you reap what you sow

Hi,

We will be reviewing this issue mid July when the team meet again. The next major release will be on the 14th July and will be BETA V1.008 (so will go to all pledgers).

We will report back our plans after that meeting.

Rick

http://fpscreloaded.blogspot.co.uk/

The vote was two to one in favor of keeping the status quo and continuing to release our pseudo-alpha cascades to all pledgers, even bronze users. Supporting our community is top priority right now!

That's fine Lee; but I would suggest changing the language on the pledging page.

Personally I don't care even if the FPSCR was totally free, I really don't, eventhough I´m a pledger and invested money in the product. But what I do care about is that correct information should be given to potential pledgers. There is a risk of bad PR otherwise.

I would also like to apologize for my bad temper in an earlier post, I felt like I was being under attack for just raising a reasonable question.
All the best to everyone.

Think nothing of it "Jedi hand wave" :p

You Can Get The Alpha Versions

This is not the finished product you're looking for...

It is not ready, end O story. Why show a product when its not ready? To me the comp was also to soon, etc etc. It still needs more shaders like reflective cube mapping etc and shadows on objects fixed. Not to mention easier custom content importing. I could go on, but you have it and know whats missing. I have no doubt that when reloaded is done or nearing done it will be sweet, but thats not now and wont be soon.

Um you missed the point to be frank, TGC didn't have the funding for this project, and as such decided on using the current model of funding the project, instead of the end user backing the project and then sitting on their hands while they wait for the project to be completed TGC took a different approach, and so far it is working, they get their funding, and end user gets betas.

TGC is working on a version 1 release schedule no doubt have a time frame to work with, so it makes sense that starting some thing early enough with both TGC and users a like can provide more polished showcase levels for the engine on release.

So just remember the funding part of the project and a lot of things would make more sense