Hi,

Welcome to the March: Have your say. This list contains last months issues, as most of you will be aware, Lee, the lead developer was away for the last week of February.



As a reminder, the aim every month, is to create a top 10 list of bugs and a top 10 list of concerns so we can address them. I'll get the bugs from the bug forum or from reports sent to me, so please keep posting those on the bugs forum. In addition please keep this thread free from feature requests, there's a forum for that too. However what I would like to hear about in this thread are concerns and issues you have with current features.



As we see it, these are the current concerns.



Concerns



1) Performance is too slow on majority of machines.

2) Memory cap is too easily hit.

3) AI just isn't that smart.

4) It's very hard to pick up small objects in the editor, especially those that overlap larger objects.

5) Characters can shoot through hills.

6) Characters should be able to use any of the available weapons.

7) New maps aren't reset correct and contain lights, grass and the last used skybox.

8) Player drops into world.

9) Textures not being moved over fully into built game (possibly a bug, but as it's a hot topic I've included it here as you're aware, we're aware



We need your feedback to help develop the product you all want to see and use.



SC

Save.exe has no content protection, although it would be wrong, actually illegal, to release even a shader or texture from Reloaded around here, it is actively encouraged to release a built game with all content accessible in it. This is contradictory and confusing to me when its actually against the media license to distribute and TGC provide a means of skirting the rules themselves.

Rolfy, that is a very good point. I'll need to pass it to Rick for comment and get back to you with some guidance.

Thanks SC, that ones been eating at me for a few

when I made that standalone level, the sound files I used was not saved or put into standalone game.

I get the same issue with textures i have to manually place them

I've just tried Smart Packer Pro with the latest standalone executables created by FPSC Reloaded and it is fully compatible. You can find the product here: http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2256



With this, you can select your standalone folder and EXE file, and it will both encrypt and compress all your media into a single runnable executable. My 210MB simple level squashed down to 75MB and it was fully encrypted, meaning your custom media is fully protected.



We do plan to have a measure of this functionality built into the core product, starting with the encryption system, but as you may know our focus for the immediate term is performance, memory and stability. Hope the above link helps!

Thank you very much for the feedback Lee, I know people will appreciate it...



And welcome back.



SC

I've seen Smart Packer Pro before. However not many are going to pay near £50 for a fancy zip tool I am afraid. Perhaps if they had a full game ready to release full of unique assets, otherwise, probably not. Obviously, speed and core issues are the focus, but some though must be given to this. How many artists are going to release their wares on the store, when they know that it is almost certain that demos will be made with them and sent out for all to be able to use?



Personally I was fine without the build game option. I've no real urge to send friends a demo of something when it is in this stage of beta anyway. Basic encryption should have been put in when it was implemented. Yes, for testing purposes it is good to put it in, so it can be checked as Reloaded evolves. But, it really seems like it was a quick rush job to get it in, just to please a few people shouting for it at the time. Sorry to be a bit negative here, but I agree with Rolfy about this, and I've never sold any media on the store! Although I would like to at some point in time.



I'm sure most people would not even look at ripping assets from a game, but it is not out of the realms of possibility. Just the other day I had someone asking me to post a free copy of Reloaded somewhere! I ignored the comment, but it proves there are many who are quite happy to just download a product without buying it. Asking me in a youtube channel also! Obviously either, very young, or just shameless! Oh I have had at least 3 people comment that they have purchased Reloaded also, so 2 gold's and a bronze got off my vids So most are quite honest still!



Anyway, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to put in very basic protection, to stop any one getting the media out. I could do it in DB. Easy to get around, if you know DB, but otherwise probably not..



As you say focus is on other areas, but my point is that the build game feature should have been left out until it could be implemented properly in the first place! Too late now though, until it is looked at. Believe me, I want nothing to distract from performance and memory work at the moment!

A single game .exe output is obviously of benefit to all concerned. TGC and users.



Save is a feature requested by the Voting List and seen presumably as important by TGC to add and its in, though if indeed it was ever going to be included as to be able to output the single .exe that should have been done at the time while it was being worked on just as with all other features - finishing what you started is a good idea.



Whatever there is no better substitute for the single file .exe output and any decent engine should have that included even if they don't for whatever reason.



Now that we have moved on or back to what some would say are more important issues which no one would disagree with perhaps then not sure what you do about it. Personally I would not want or care to distribute anything made in Reloaded at the moment but the save feature is helpful in testing Reloaded both in editor and saved game to test both versions. Having a single .exe output on save/publish is the ideal way to protect distributed media ensuring anyone saving a game will by default pack it and provide a level of protection in instances that they then distribute it so is obviously a good idea for all concerned.



The Save feature is no different to any other in as much as its unfinished so it might be a good idea to finish things as you go as said many times for many numerous reasons that is after you go back and update whats already started to some level of basic completion which can be further built upon and again updated when there is some stability brought back to do so and hopefully before adding any further features in the same vein.



In or Out makes little difference at the moment as we should be concerned with more basic things than that at present. If taken out it wont be any loss I would think at the moment and can always be put back hopefully as a single .exe output when those obvious current basic core things that need sorting are somewhat nearer being usable.

I am not objecting to single save.exe that's where it should be also I don't want to be spitting out the dummy, it's about built games that are going to continue with no encryption.The next bunch of built games, which I guarantee will be many if Reloaded comes up to muster and users have access to far more media than now.

I know those who use custom media created by themselves will want to encrypt their built games and levels, but what about those who purchase my media through TGC and simply won't care so much.



To be honest this is raising licensing and legal issues best left out of the development/project argument.I won't discuss it any further around here as it's not something up for debate, at least not from my point of view .





I have actually reached saturation point and won't bother posting anything around here anymore for a while, for those of you who think I was just being a pain and trying to remove your favorite feature, please understand that I prefer to fix things before they become a problem and not wait till the crap hits the fan and it's too late.



Doesn't mean I am finished with Reloaded but I am not going to continue beating myself up over it. My tiny brain can't deal with all the contradictions and confusion

Rolfy

Sorry my post was in the wrong thread

Am I getting confused agian? Must be the pain killers.



Preventing any release is what I am trying to prevent...or summat.

I definitely need a holiday.

Why do we need to address items 3-8? I thought the focus was on performance. I know you're just as tired of hearing me as I am, so I promise I'll take a vacation, because it seems that we're just getting lip service when it comes to what's being worked on.







I can't figure out what that has to do with textures and sounds not being added to the build folder, but it could just be me. I'm going to take a little vacation and I'm sure everything will look better when I get back.



Brian.

Hi,



Thanks for all of your comments, it really is a great help.







I'm sorry you feel this, it's certainly not our intention. This thread was created to allow users a clearer insight into progress, as a 'one stop shop' for concerns regarding the engines' current status and of course, to keep you informed of the issues that we are aware you're having. To date, it's been very useful to TGC, however if anyone feels that it isn't working as intended, or is adding to confusion, please say, and we'll find another approach.



Please remember, that anyone may contact me if they have major concerns, either via email, PM or the via the support system.







Lee's focus is indeed on performance, memory usage, and stability. However, while Lee is lead developer, he isn't the only member of the development team and this full list of concerns enables other issues to be delegated where appropraite.







I believe Lee was answering Rolfy's question about media distribution, but I think some people would like a little more guidance. I'll get something more comprehensive before the next beta.



SC

Nothing wrong with this approach at all ?

In fact if all the top ten issues are rectified in the next build we should be in for a treat....



This thread does not actually show results which is why I think its a bit gloomy so I did a bit of searching shown below..



I like this Top 10 list approach...it gets things done

Here ya go



Based on our Comments since the last build.



•The shooting of enemies is fixed (they always get hit now)

•The Physics have been vastly improved in speed and how they are processed across different devices.

•Water buoyancy fixed

•Sound and Story zone scripts fixed

•We’ve added an option to remove VSYNC

•We’re adding Hierarchical Z-Buffer Occlusion which should result in faster frame rates (read about it in Lee’s blog)



Other engine optimisations include;

•The A.I. system was sucking 100fps when over 20 enemies were in play. This is now down to just 30fps.

•The Vegetation system was leaking memory, this is now plugged

•The Instant stamp system fine tuned

•Quad textures have also been fine tuned



All of these changes are improving the speed and quality of the Reloaded engine. We aim to keep working on optimisations and bring you a far better Beta in the near future.



Now this is what this thread needed

Not for some for most its ether the same or slower



Also a few things in the list are still broken

How do you know....Its all in the next release...you haven't tried it yet ?

Ahh sorry thought you were talking about this build

LOL No probs



This list was around mid February after the last release.... No doubt he has done loads more since then...Love to see a latest list of progress

It shows our comments are effective

Yea the think i am looking forward to the most as the ability to place more items as i feel we cant make full working maps just yet.

Not sure if that will be in the next beta but it will be good when it does come

I know its probably me ...But im struggling with getting the water level correct ..A pond for example seems to deep without lowering the whole terrain around it....



Cat we have a water level slider in the Tab menu like X10 ?

1)You can't actually swim in the ponds, its the same like walking

2)Idk if this is a bug or just the beta but when i build in the editor, the mountains look like they have rocks and grass o top. in the game, everything is grass(if there is an option i didnt see it :p )

3)If you are trying to put small objects in big objects like those tends, its very hard, you have to zoom literally IN the object(again, if there is an option i didn't see it)



Other than that, i see that this products development is going pretty well.

@Rafaelinio



Thanks for the feedback.



1) Water is still a WIP feature, and swimming,ripples and all sorts of water effects will be added to the engine once core features are in place.



2) I'm not quite sure what you mean here, I could just no

I don't see how that is going to work ? Considering that water physics is to some extend tied to the engine's over physics code?



So excuse me for point out that the they go hand in hand, plus water isn't exactly an add on feature but a core feature in it's self.

At present our full focus is on performance, memory usage and stability. Good progress is being made in these areas internally and I'm sure you'll all be impressed with the results come the next Beta. Second to these issues are AI improvements, which we are also aware is a vital area.



Rest assured that water and improved physics won't be ignored and are on our internal list for attention in the near future. As always, we'll keep you all informed, via Lee's blog and these boards.



SC

Scene Commander kindly check your reply ? Then check my post ask your self if the generic answer you gave correlates to what I said, thanks

@Wizard of Id.



I'm sorry if you feel that my response was a generic answer, but the fact remains that our priority currently remains performance, stability and memory use. This has taken a little longer than expected, but is nearing a point where we

Yes yes we get the whole check list thing :p. I am getting annoyed when being politically correct and say some needs to be "improved". I my self am trying to be polite about it, it's not improvements if stuff needs to be fixed after which you improve on it, just saying.



and I understand your position, with TGC, being polite and having to answer in such away deemed accepted by TGC.

@Wizard of Id.



I (and TGC) are aware that water isn't what it will need to be, currently the only real attention water has had has been fixing the reflections, and any performance drain that may have been related to it.



We are moving as fast as

Not a bug as such but for modelling can we have the multi texture back ?



the fpe did find the .X textures automaticly in an earlier beta apparently if you left the " Textured = " Blank like FPSC...



For Example

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

visualinfo



textured = (Left Blank and auto detected multiple textures )

effect = effectbank\reloaded\entity_basic.fx

castshadow = 0

etc



Its making fps recommended tools like 3D world studio useless....Well for Reloaded anyway

I am with wizard of id water is needed to be addressed before game build flashlight and any occulous rift. In other words your priorities were a bit iffy. I am happy with the core work but water is a core job maybe as much as ai. We are walking on water why? Over a year as passed and still we walk on water I do hope you get the priorities right after performance. WATER is important end of

Hi,



Water is important, No one has suggested it isn't.. It will be addressed.



As I've said before, if you can all be patient, we can promise you something that will really impress with the next beta.



SC

If the community vote me off performance, memory and stability, I will stop work on it and also not harping on about it too I have tweaked the water collision so the player moves smoothly over it now instead of being stuck in it (aka beta 5), but the more I think about water the more I want to do a good job about it (buoyancy for objects, player swimming and underwater physics, underwater render effects, water plants and fish, inverse reflections, post process wave effects, light shafts, audio distortion, enemies underwater, modified particle and decal system when under water, water zones instead of a single water plane, about water splashes for player, more varied gun impact splashes with directional spray, more water effect techniques instead of the mill-pond look, fogging underwater, visibility tweaking so you cannot see to the bottom when looking straight down, the list, as you can see, goes on and on and on). As I think about 'water' I also think about doing a good job with it, and for this amount of required time I need to clear my plate. The only way that is doing to happen with the present plan is to solve performance, memory, stability, AI, editing control and game play work. It definitely will arrive, and I have plenty of energy to dedicate to it, but I also appreciate there is no sense having a great looking water scene if the game above the water line is dog slow

LOL: God and Lee have a lot in common....Both create worlds and both have the power to make us walk on water



Ok god did it in 6 days....but look at the bugs in it !!



Sorry had to get that one in

i don't think water is to important right now, performance, stability, and memory must be finished 1st to a great degree before good looking pretty things start to work their way in. just my opinion as I have seen from the beginning beta the performance rise and then again fall later on.. I have however paid for a new gpu which fingers crossed arrives today like amazon email states, by which time after installing performance wont matter so much for me not like memory usage will.



some things in reloaded are debatable when it comes to should it have gotten in yet or not, like the standalone exe, or the rift, but tbh its done now and no point taking it out or rushing to add more acceptable features just to please people that feel other things should be done or its taking to long..



I for 1 along with many im sure would rather have performance back up and memory usage way down, as this can only be a good thing earlier than later.

Im hoping theres going to be a quest generator and an item drop script. Im no CODER. The more free scripts the better

@lee



lol I have written a reply a couple of times but delete it every time for fear of offending which is not my intention.My General question would be when is too much performance ideas and implementation too much, your making it compatible with a w

As I have a 6 year old card myself (at least, it seems longer than that to me lol), I would say very important. You have to realize that many potential buyers of your game would not automatically have a modern GPU. Also factor in my old GPU (260GTX, a little better than Lee's slightly older 9600GT) runs any game I throw at it, because I opted for a decent variant of the cards available at the time.



For instance Dead Island runs great and looks way better than Reloaded in the main. People who buy your game will notice that performance sucks in comparison. It possibly will never get as fast as that engine, but it at least needs to be in the same ballpark, albeit it with slightly less fancy visuals, perhaps, I'd prefer equal myself





I'm sure there are many. Most games have plenty of settings so you could keep using an old card for some time, as long as you are prepared to lower the quality in some areas. Also, Laptop and Netbook GPU's are normally fairly basic. This performance work will help get those devices to run it better, not all games buyers are hardcore desktop users!







I agree in some ways. We were limited to making a semi pretty scene to walk around. The water used to work semi okay, but I must admit I never usually bother running into it when playing about. Still, with scripting now we can do other things. Still limited, but soon to be expanded. I'm not fussed about the water myself yet. Having a way to adjust the y height of the plane would be useful to a certain extent though. It certainly easier than adjusting your entire map.



I'm not sure about the 100x100 system, from what I have read on the forums it still exists as far as placement goes, but may change when the constructor is added. I also noticed a config file for grids.. But never looked at it. Not sure about the collision you mention. I have found it fairly good in the main so far, apart from the odd slowdown here and there. That is apparently fixed now.



In answer to your last question. Because it is terrible. Plain and simple, some pledgers are struggling to run it at all and that is not good. Can you imagine the sort of review Total Biscuit would give to a game that ran so badly even on a fast PC? It doesn't bear thinking about, lol. If the main engine is not stable or fast enough, it needs to be worked on. Why leave it till last, only to find you can't speed it up without rewriting many other parts of the code?



I realise for people with pretty new fast hardware will not be finding this issue yet. But you would once the memory restrictions have been lifted, which they have by the sounds. The engine just isn't optimised enough yet to run across the board.



We are all frustrated about the speed of progress here, but on reading Lee's blogs it seems performance is finally getting there now! I'm expecting it to run well in the next release from these reports. Also, we can expect some extra news at GDC which sounds like it could be good!



Of course I am not TGC, and I am sure they could answer better than me. I also agree multi textures would be useful, but am not sure if they will ever be implemented. I would prefer to have them myself, as for some things one single texture just seems not enough for the job. It's mostly noticeable with larger models as the texture becomes more noticeable the closer you get.



Performance is key to Reloaded getting noticed. Once we have it, our pretty levels will start to look impressive, rather than just good screenshots.

Performance, stability and memory use has been the focus, but as Dvader has said, this phase is coming to an end, and once the first alpha version for performance testing has gotten the thumbs up from our Alpha testers, the development focus will be changing to improving AI and the other features. It is our intention that the next Beta will be a big one, bringing the product much closer to one that can start to be used to develop games.



SC

@DVader



BTW you got your cards mixed up 260GTX wasn't the replacement card for the 9600GT the 250GTS was, the 260GTX is more than twice as fast, 250GTS good deal faster as well, in fact 9600GT performance dramatically fall off in newer games compare

To be honest i might have asked the same but i remember back in the day when i purchased FPSC Classic - i kinda was dissapinted as it wasnt able to run on a low end notebook and believe it or not the age of Hardcore PC Gamers with Desktop Pc's is over.



Reloaded heading towards support of older hardware is the best way to ensure that not only our Games we create with it can be played on a wide range of systems no it ensures that we can construct more complex levels without havin to fear that our game customers wont be able to run those!

See, i hope you understand that Performance is key.

I really like this beta, but I would like to have a little bit more control with LUA scripting in next beta.



For example, you should load all FPE data into g_Entity[e], or at least entity name. I have already made a script to manipulate entities by their name, but unfortunately the way it works now, I need separate script for any entity (or at least any entity type) to set it's name before I can fetch it by name. I guess adding g_Entity[e]['name'] is not that hard and can be done for next beta.



Another thing that would make even these betas cool is the possibility to re-spawn enemies with LUA at certain point (e.g. trigger zone) so we could make one-level never-ending games and yeah, if we could make characters not attack the player, but just stand there and act as NPCs, we could make some sense when we approach an entity (idle character) and the dialogue text appears... but that's not so important for me now (I'll use static entities as characters).



Also one possibly LUA-related bug: If I'm displaying entity distance from player (with Prompt) when I'm near entity and then I shoot the entity so it moves a bit (but still in vicinity for Prompt to work) the distance in LUA/Prompt doesn't change.



edit: If I use require "scriptbank/file.lua" in global.lua to load my custom code, this file.lua will not be transferred in built game. I know you can't parse all scripts and get all required files, but it is something to think about.

@Avram



I think we all agree that more LUA commands would be great, and I know Lee has already expressed an interest in improving these soon. Looking at what people have done so far with the limited set is amazing.



I think we can expect to see so

Reloaded still cant handle a small detailed scene.



My Specs:



i7, 16GB Ram, 1TB HDD, Nvidia GTX 465 1GB.



Is it my Video card that's slowing it down? or is it just Reloaded? If you think I need to upgrade I will. I just want to get the most out of Reloaded. What do you think?



PAIN!

@Pain.



I can't image that your card is slowing things down.



Please post or send me a sample map using default media for me to test. Also please post/send images showing your settings and FPS.



My card isn't as highly rated as yours and I rar

It seems performance is unpredictable on different configurations. I have a Nvidia GTX 680 and comparable hardware to Pain and likewise get quite poor framerates with the latest released beta. On the get to the river map I average 30-45 FPS as I walk through it.

@ SC



Thank you for checking.. Like I said I would like to get the most out of it. So anything you think will help.

map attached, picture added in next post.



PAIN!