Same thing different words. It seems as if this is what every one is looking for that comes to view this discussion. NOW, lets hope its a possible addition tot he engine and it can come with the next release.

Wouldn't that be done in the standalone compile as reloaded progresses ... You couldn't expect people to buy and create games using what they assume to be the best and easiest 3D game maker tool in the world and then expect them to know how to to do complex encryptions to protect the contents...Without buying specialised software to encrypt it I don't really have much idea myself



Don't get me wrong I respect and understand your concerns and am one of those that would also never use anyone elses stuff and blag it as my own but...

I don't really have an answer to keep everyone happy...



All I can say is that if there was no conkit and we all used blender the same thing could still happen....at the moment we just trust it doesn't or wont ?

Same thing different words. It seems as if this is what every one is looking for that comes to view this discussion. NOW, lets hope its a possible addition to the engine and it can come with the next release.

@Imchasinyou







Oh ye your right ...Not intentional though honest...I just picked up on your post and wrote what my instincts wanted to do when I zoomed in

It will now or soon enough, Classic didn't have much protection to speak of and that was easily worked around. You would even see .dbo converters released onto the forums, it's the reason s4real did Vishnu.



TGC want to make this a much more professionally acceptable software, this includes everything, even those things most users couldn't care less about.

@syncro





Ya I understood that, just want to make sure we all are looking in the same directi

Part of the CONKIT feature is to 'bake' a finished creation for game-ready performance. This process CANNOT be reversed, either by the editor or externally. Artists who wish to protect their CONKIT Assets simply need to ship the baked versions, protecting their I.P whilst being able to sell through the store. Artists who want to offer 'unbaked' CONKIT assets are free to do so. No need to rely on legalese to protect your work, just tick a box when you upload to the store which says 'baked' NOTE: All this does not exist yet, only when we release the CONKIT and the Store additions.

@Rolfy :







Oh god no mate ...An argument never even entered my head....For me it was a good debate and I learnt a lot from you I was unaware of

Now I could be wrong. Has the construction kit been added this last patch? 'conkitbank' just showed up in my Files folder after I updated.

Not yet....Lee just put it there to tease the hell out of us ..

.



I am afraid I am a little confused here. I know what your saying about baked..... I am asking about individual assets, meshes and textures for use in the Conkit. If I can import a mesh to make Conkit ready so can anyone, if I can't then how would I provide assets for it?.



If we are talking about only final built 'bakes' here having protection, that's fine but I don't need the conkit to build those, I could do it myself and simply release in the usual way as a built model. I would like to provide users with stuff they can use in The Conkit, or is it now intended for TGC assets only?





What your saying is that baked builds can be protected by those who make them or at least that they will be useless anywhere else so long as they are baked, I get that and actually think I would run my models through it simply to benefit from that protection.



I am talking about raw assets not those that are 'baked' after construction.



Once users have a lot of different third party assets to use in the construction kit, how are they going to distinguish between permitted for redistribution and non-permitted.



There is a difference between providing a pack of meshes and textures for use and a construction made and baked from these. It gets broader if any mesh or texture can be used and there are other assets in the store which don't have any kind of 'bake' that could find their way into users constructions and released to the store or on the forum.



The flip side is users finding themselves in trouble for including a non permitted asset in their construction due to a lack of awareness and releasing it to everyone, it wont make it all okay that they themselves protected it.



I am not asking for encryption as such, I am asking how it's going to be made clear what the rules are for users of the ConKit who want to build and sell their creations. Most of these will have no clue, I do since I have been around a long time modeling, on the old forums the golden rule was 'if you didn't create any part of it don't release it' but it still happened often resulting in the user being banned, this is going to muddy the waters even further.



I will simply shut up for now and wait till the ConKit is released, this will be clearer to you when the issue presents itself, ask Chris to read this he will understand as he is the one that needs to keep tabs on what goes into the store

@Imchasinyou I could not agree any more with you about the top down only editing view. Everyday I get frustrated and attempt to move it with a shift something or a control this.. ahh.

I use 3D Studio Max a lot and G.E.C.K. for creating mods for Fallout3 and I often jump to Reloaded attempting to move my perspective using the Shift key.



I am not a fan of the F9 edit system as your stuck within the parameters of the FOV and camera settings of player perspective. This also includes the player movement which can become impaired by the imposing performance slappers while in game (vegetation, water shaders, entity animations). Its just not intuited enough for me and I'll be honest its actually frustrating to use. Sure it looks "cool" to edit this way but I don't want to play Minecraft while I'm attempting to make a game.



I'd much rather the ability to switch between free-moving angles to various fixed angles such as top down or side and zoom in and out with the scroll wheel. I don't want to have to essentially be the player while I make a level. Its just not helpful at all. Its a cool concept but for me personally its been a difficult system to use and its not precise enough.



Perhaps that's just me.

Whoops !! Apologies...

@rolfy - I know you are pretty much leaving this topic to rest, but I figured I'd chime in really quickly. Like you, I was concerned about piracy of any assets I create or make (I have tossed down quite a bit of money for the programs I use, and a lot of

I am not as such worrying about piracy...it happens...still, to me it's damage control.



From my view users who never modeled before can now do so, that's great as far as I am concerned, it's more the idea that things need to be clearly stated somewhere,somehow about whats redistributable and whats not if the Conkit will accept any mesh and texture, this is the stuff that concerns me, when users may unknowingly use a mesh or texture that isn't included in TGC's Conkit license...this involves TGC's own stock media not just third party...and redistributed as a construction.



I know that encrypting my media doesn't 100% protect it but it's better to do this than not. I simply foresee many users making mistakes and that's not good for anyone.



For some reason everyone thinks I am talking solely about what comes out of ConKit, I can undertand, but it's really about what is put into constructions and redistributed that concerns me. I know Lee said there was a flag, but what about media that hasn't been tagged with this ?



Maybe that's been thought through and dealt with by a new Reloaded media proprietary format, but don't see it said anywhere. If not then it may be a good idea to do so, this at least would offer some kind of heads up for both stock and store media not specifically included with the conkit, or even a generic "unknown, check this items individual license, dude" message would be better than nothing.



As a store vendor I have to state that all media is my own, if not then I have written license permissions. If folks are going to put constructions into the store they likely have to do the same, this isn't something avoided by tagging constructions themselves, it would make it all a lot easier if they were given a nudge in the right direction when building constructs.



Maybe your right and there is no issue, but it does no harm to ask if something bad can be avoided.

OK BOYS TAKE THE Plagiarism and piracy rant to a new thread!



agree with rolfy



This is the Construction Kit Progress Thread.. I make and use or purchase for my own games. And even then got accused of Plagiarism once. I was exonerated However it left a horrible taste in my mouth for months and months.



According to my son in-law is usually the ones that scream and yell about Plagiarism and piracy that are the pirates,, After 27 years as a Narc and Homicide detective he told me the ones they watch are the pushy finger pointers during a investigation because over 90 percent of the time they are the real Pusher or Murderers.



It made since to me because any women will tell you that when your man suddenly starts grilling you on where you were and who you were with and what were you doing,,,,, It is his guilt talking,



Oh guys it works in the reverse as well.. if she was never jealous and is suddenly jealous you might want to see what she is up to..



Reference Law enforcement training Plagiarism and Piracy 303

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2014/01/15/patterns-plagiarism/#.U2MmM39tdKU



http://quizlet.com/27529039/speech-midterm-terms-flash-cards/



Maybe we need a new Construction Kit Progress thread.. this one's corrupt.

So maybe you agree this should be avoided



This is concerning the Conkit I don't see why I shouldn't post concerns in here and if anyone disagrees they can speak up, won't stop me though. My personal rant on piracy ended with my first post, in fact I don't recall actually using the term at all except in response to someone else who did, maybe I should go back and read it again but afraid I would bore myself senseless. I do tend to waffle when people miss my point. That's not my fault if I have to try to find another way to get it across.

I believe those who have been victims can tend to be just as vocal, he doesn't really believe all those support and campaign groups out there were started and run by perps does he? I am trying to help with education here and avoidance, ask him if ignorance of the law is an excuse and see what he says.

Plagiarism? where did that come from?



Just thought I would even off your statement a little as some may resent the implication. Just as I only responded to clear up what was being said in post above my last one. Seriously I am done in here, you will be gald to hear, I am happy to just sit back now and watch it all go bums up

I do have one question myself to anyone who feels this way and makes models..



Whats the difference between the model you make and put on the store at present that anyone can buy...And the model you will make and export using the conkit and upload to the store that anyone can buy ?



From what I have read so far it would appear the Conkit Models will be better protected than the ones that are uploaded already. Or..they will be all the same and carry the same risk.



I maybe green to modelling but how does it all go bums up ?

Sigh! Definitely last attempt.



When someone takes a mesh or texture from the stock or third party media and includes it in their 'for sale' or 'for free' construction you will find out.



All I seek is some kind of flag to help users avoid it, nothing more, no finger pointing and definitely not ranting about piracy

For one if people use your conkit assets, builds some thing with it, you will be breaching about every general artist license, which often disallows textures and meshes to be reversed engineered, bundled given away or sold.



In simple terms some one else is making money of your work, with no compensation.In other words, I am like rolfy not happy at all, spending hours creating stuff, and some one else making money of my work.



Which means one of two things, artists, will not use conkit, or will create baked conkit assets only, the last part although there will be a lot of baked assets, the community as a whole wouldn't benefit all that much as they would have to create their own assets...

I have no issues with someone making money of my work if I give permission, thats the whole point of the conkit. If I don't want that I could simply check the box that says 'no way'.



Its the stuff that's not Conkit encrypted or flagged that needs looked at. Lets be straight here the idea of users distributing their own versions of conkit builds for sale suddenly appeared out of the blue and has not been properly thought through at all.



I actually like the idea as it gives users a creative outlet and maybe a few bucks for coffee to boot, but it's wide open to mistakes being made due to confusion.

There is a basic point that if one is creating games for distribution - for free or for sale that as a bottom line the creator of that game irrespective of the content and where it came from would really desire to see that game in its entirety protected and that includes of course any media which the game maker did not personally create from any source - media makers here included.



i.e. A protected game for distribution. Full stop.



A game for example may well contain for example content made and generated by the game maker themselves as well as other media. e.g. I may make my own textures as I do. I also do make some models. I will no doubt make and use some lua scripts. I may make and use some of my own audio. I may create image assets, huds and more.



Thus the need to protect one Game in its entirity is desirable for an game maker end of story. Who wants to distribute a game that anyone else can then break apart and use all the assets from - of any kind?



Giving a game away for free for playing is one thing - that does not mean the end users should have access to do anything other than play it. If a game maker want to give away legitimate things from their game that they themselves have created e.g. a script there's nothing stopping them - but not as part of their whole game which should be "locked".



A single game .exe is the only way. Nothing else will do.



That may be a large file in this instance me thinks!

It is also possible to bring in entities to use in conkit I assume the conkit will have it's own type of "FPE" file, would be easy as pie to create a conkit specific file for that entity, and bobs your uncle.

I am actually assuming it would only require mesh and texture import, even simpler than you think. If it's .fpe import then all that stuff is just sitting there waiting to be used, not against that at all for users own games, but not for redistribution.





Although not really what I am talking about I can say that encryption is usually accompanied with compression making file sizes smaller

Well, then I am not so sure I want conkit any more.The fact that reloaded now allows for entities to be placed with in entities, means I can just create a grouped mesh and atlas texture add various entity items to populate the grouped mesh with, and done.



The grouped mesh would be useless for conkit.

That's kind of the lines I was thinking Reloaded was going to work eventually....



Then if I had an email asking something like ..." would it be possible to use some of your textures in my game full credit will be given "



I would probably agree and send them what they request....At least that's the way it worked in my mapping days...If the textures were made by another team member for the map I would point them in that direction....There never really was a problem as far as assets went... It was just the done thing

You are assuming that all people have the same experience, knowledge and ethics as you do



This software is aimed at those new to game creation as well as experienced users.

If I made a model and sold it on the store....Does the buyer then own that model to the extent he could Put it in blender and alter it for his needs within his game...Re texture it for example if it did not quite suit his needs ?



Im not talking about reselling...Where would that stand ?

See from my perspective I would not mind someone doing that if he paid me for it ?

Yes...though this might be a question best posted in the store thread, thing is, with a reloaded proprietary format being suggested they may be unable to do this but TGC license only forbids any redistribution in part or whole other than in your games, changing it to suit your needs is necessary for many game designers so completely acceptable

"own" isn't the correct term, It remains the property of the artist, within the license agreement between the user and artist grants him certain rights to use the model, as described with in the license agreement, some allow re texturing, with certain conditions, some don't allow it at all, it depends on the artist.



The correct term is "Fair usage"

Fair use is a different thing. it permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders for education purposes,journalism etc.



I think the last few posts illustrate my point perfectly

So, what say you Lee? It seems it should be possible to fix the editor for a multi axis view, every one here sees a value to it. Doable for next release?

Next release I believe focuses on AI.

That's what the changelog for the last update says. http://fpscreator.thegamecreators.com/changelog1_006.php At the bottom of the page. If they keep to what they say and open up the engine's logic via lua then they will have gained a long time supporter. I don't mind The construction kit......but honestly the only thing I want them to push out right now is core game logic hooks for lua. Please. Take your time with the construction part. Just give me more hooks!

Well aware of that as well as the "tweaks and improvements". Im thinking that its a possibility. I mean "tweaks and improvements" is a very broad statement.



Scripting is one thing but if you cant put together an effective map that looks and flows correctly. . . . . .

I would love to see a multi-axis view in the next update!

I agree and disagree with you. You can't have a flowing game(not just the 'looks' of a map) without game logic. You can't. Everything that happens around a player is all scripted. Down to where an object is on the map, to the guns you use. That to me is more important right now. I have found a few tricks when placing objects in the editor(not the F9 test mode). That makes it possible to do everything you speak of without the need for a change in camera. It's not stopping me, or a few others I have gotten to get FPSC:R, in making a game. Would it be nice to have. Yes! Sadly just not a priority. The lack of logic will soon keep me from going forward.



I do agree with Meows however:





I think we should all make separate threads for our needs. Leave this to the Construction kit. You will see mine pop up eventually. For now I have scripting to do.

There is a feature creep board for suggestions, and the have your say thread for general comments and concerns. Too many threads will end up with issues that are important to the poster most likey being missed.



To help us to help you, please try to post in the correct places.



If any artist has protection questions or concerns they are free to PM or email me where I can help them personally.



Many thanks.

Im pretty sure, at least IMO, my questions have related to the construction kit in the way of the multi axis use for placement which the conkit would provide. Thus, the ground work is in place, it just needs implemented to the editor.



If MOD feels my questions do not belong here, Ill be happy to make a new thread for each and every suggestion I have that would benefit me and others in being more successful in creating their maps.

Sadly it's been about a set up for 'creation' of objects in your world by the player. Think of games like Rust. Where you can build a wall with a hammer, etc.

Here's what y'all do, you let Mods decide whether a post is off topic and use your own common sense to decide if your post is in right thread or not, if your wrong they wont be slow in telling you.



Unless I see a Mod badge I won't be giving it much attention when given orders or 'advice' from users on whether my posts are relevant or not.



TBH this sticky is pointless till work on the Conkit is restarted which by the looks of it won't be any time soon.



Whining about off topic posts simply makes your own off topic and the cycle wont end, whats that? I am being 'off topic' yes sheriff....sir.

Soulless and I are friends. We have been discussing this in Steam and for what ever reason, all he can see is LUA and not the actual purpose of making suggestions outside of LUA.

As in the past with game development such as Rust, he has walked away when the progress is diverted away from what he wants. Its already been stated that he will walk away from this if more isnt done with scripting soon. I brought him to this program both by recommendation and financial support thinking it would help him in his dreams of making it big in the gaming world.

I am here for a cheap hobby outside of gaming. I cant model, I cant script. Thats why I pay him to do my scripting and pay for the models I have. Ill never release anything for profit. Thats not why Im here. I simply made a suggestion, provided a logic for it and thought Id get more from the devs about it. I think the logic is there for the function from the conkit. Others would like to see this implemented as well.

If Soulless keeps walking away every time it doesn't go the way he wants he won't be very successful with anything I am afraid.



Back on topic....I do agree it would be nice to have a proper top,left,right and orthographic views for conkit, I find this first person f9 level editing to be incredibly counter intuitive and awkward and it looks like Conkit works the same way so far.

@rolfy : The assets used by the CONKIT for building purposes may have a lot of meta-data required so I don't think we would have a system for artists to provide these meshes/textures in the first release. Some sort of new file format would be needed to de

Thanks for the response Lee, most of my frustration was with being misunderstood in my concerns, you just alleviated that for me

Im with rolfy here. Im glad to wait but dont want such an important thing to get over looked. I thought that video was enough to show that the conkit was under way and the ability to change ones perspective was a possibilty at this point in the development.





Ill begin to recruit the naggers. . . . .



Ive tried to set things behind buildings but when you zoom into the editor and try to get something up against a building, it just isnt possible or practical to have to try so hard where as being able to rotate around it would help. Ive also tried to place things into a building and when its not right, I cant click that single item as all I can click is the building itself for some reason.

@Rolfy

@Lee



Actually most of the problems in this thread were my fault..

I kept asking questions ( Only because I did not understand fully ) what the fuss was about....But I do now...Being old school I have not mapped in 10 years and those days h

No one is at fault, as I said if Mods feel it's getting off course they will say so, it's not down to me or anyone else to say whats relevant. Everyone feels their point may be overlooked in a project with so many users and different need, in my owndefense I jsut felt no one was understanding my point.



Don't sweat it bro'.

@Teabone : You can press F9 then PGUP to float in the air. You can then lock the camera height with the L key and start editing/placing using a 2.5D style perspective. Running around on the ground is more of a gimmick at this stage, with the real editing